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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Getting started in wedding photography
Steven Barry, Photographer
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Port Townsend | WA | US | Posted: 12:02 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Hey everyone-
I'm looking to augment my income through wedding and portrait photography and I have some basic questions about getting started. I'm in the throes of research about it and I wanted to get the SS perspective.
- Which lenses are essential? Which camera bodies? How many camera bodies? What other equipment is essential?
- What's a good amount to charge?
- What's a good advertising/marketing strategy?
- Any potential pitfalls I should be aware of?
Many thanks to anyone who can help.
Peace,
Steven |
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Scott Bush, Photographer
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Clifton | NJ | USA | Posted: 12:17 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> I mostly do wedding photography, so I hope this helps.
The lenses I use the most at a wedding are a wide zoom (17-35) and long zoom (70-200). I use my 50/1.4 quite often and also my 10.5 fisheye here and there.
I would recommend going out with at least 2 bodies. Brides don't want to know that they have security. Pretty much, go out with 2 of everything.
Which camera body? This is too broad of a question. I shoot D200's.
What's a good amount to charge? Again, too broad. And it varies greatly from city to city and state to state. Look at photographers in your area and use them as a starting point.
What's a good marketing strategy? There is none. But I did all my advertising online and stayed away from magazines. It is paying off rather well. But referals are the best marketing strategy.
Run to http://www.digitalweddingforum.com and join. |
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Tony Sirgedas, Photographer
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Pierce County | WA | USA | Posted: 12:45 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Yikes, that's a pretty loaded set of questions. The variables on weddings can range so much, from the simple backyard to the massive church gig.
Quality equipment with backups of everything. Fast lenses for when you can't use lighting. Lastly, join the Professional Photographers of Washington to get information and network with local folks who are currently doing weddings. http://www.ppw.org/ |
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Wes Hope, Photographer
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Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:55 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> First recommendation: An assistant. If you don't have a wife, get one... they're great for toting gear, corralling family members for portraits, getting cheese cubes and cake at receptions, and for taking care of the business end of things.
Let your work speak for itself. There's no need in spending a ton of money on advertising when you're just starting out. We've shot weddings for 6 years, averaging about 14 a year (plenty when you're doing this to "supplement" your income) and all our business has been word of mouth from brides and from vendors (caterers, florists, etc.). Bust your butt, do a good job, schmooze with the vendors and swap business cards, and the weddings will start rolling in. It may be slow at first, but they'll come if you're good and the price is right.
Since you're starting out, I'd charge a little less than what the going rates are in your area the first year or so. I don't see this as undercutting your competition (unless you're waaay below their rates) as you are just starting out. You can't expect to shoot your first wedding at $4000. I'd look for comparable shooters in your area and go a few hundred less for your first few weddings (ie. They shoot for $1500, you charge $1250). It may be be that little bit that gets your first few gigs and then slowly increase your prices.
Be unique to your area. No one offering a hi-res CD? You do it, but make sure you charge for it. Albums? Packages? Free engagement shoots? Honeymoon coverage (easy boy)? Whatever it is that will set you apart from the competition. Just make sure you charge for it.
Gear. Keep it simple and keep it light. You're going to be on your feet for 8 hours you don't need to carry every lens you've got with you. Like Scott said, 2 of everything, but keep all the backups in a bag or case in the back of the church/reception/whatever. Fast lenses, prime or zoom, your choice. As far as lighting and portraits, remember that you're going to be working in some dark places sometimes and you're also going to be shooting the occasional big group (we had a wedding party of 16 this weekend). You may want to invest in some small monolights (I've used the low-priced Alien Bees for 5 years and love them).
Lastly, go get your head examined and your Valium prescription refilled. Weddings aren't for everyone. They can be stressful and a big headache. But when you step back and think that you're being witness to one of the biggest days in two peoples lives and that you get the joy and responsibility of telling their story... why it's priceless. Just don't tell them that so you'll get paid.
Oh and do check out Digital Wedding Forum. The boards move there at the speed of light, but there is some decent information there and a lot of folks willing to give advice.
Good luck! |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 8:57 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Any potential pitfalls I should be aware of?
Mother-In-Laws
Grin |
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Drew Buchanan, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Fort Walton Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 9:38 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> I'm assuming you shoot Canon. Lenses....simple....get a 200 1.8; you'll have a big advantage over most other wedding photographers. The smooth bokeh is essential for weddings and portraits, and it's a good length. Get a 16-35 or 17-35 and possibly a fisheye or a 14. Last but not least get a 70-200 or a 85.
As for prices, I'll leave that up to you. Start below your competitors to get customers. You can research and find some good starting rates.
If you don't already, get a website and advertise on sites like Marketingtool.com, etc. and get your name out there. It's going to cost a bit, but it's definetly worth it.
Lastly, don't chimp at weddings. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 9:46 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Steven
Goo take a look at the Digital Wedding Forum http://www.digitalweddingforum.com There are quite a few SS members on there, and quite a few news photogs/ex news photogs.
The questions you are asking are all of a personal nature. Each photog has thier own overhead, their marketing plan, own value of what they can charge.
Figure out your market, your target audience, and what service you plan to offer and go from there.
As for equipment, again , it is all a personal choice. |
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Landon Finch, Photographer
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Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 9:52 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Check out http://www.wpja.com to gather info on wedding photogs in your area and beyond.
Also check out the contest photos, lots of great ideas/inspiration there. |
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Wes Hope, Photographer
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Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:54 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> "Lastly, don't chimp at weddings."
Gotta say a big bull crapola to that one Drew. If there was ever a time and place to make sure that your WB is right, the shot is in focus, the dreaded mother-in-law isn't blinking, it's at a wedding. You HAVE to make sure you've gotten the shot because someone's wedding is something you don't want to screw around with.
Plus, I don't know how many times I've calmed a nervous bride down by flipping the camera around and showing her how pretty she looks in her dress.
So munch on a banana and chimp like you've never evolved. Just make sure you've got extra batteries! |
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Landon Finch, Photographer
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Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 10:05 AM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> One more thing...INSURANCE (liability and for your gear) |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 10:23 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> When I was assisting with weddings I would sometimes leave the flash on the camera (Canon) but turn off the flash, so I could use the low-light AF assist in low availiable light situations.
On my 10D there was a CF that allowed the AF assist beam from a 550EX to emit, but the flash would not fire... it was a great help in low-light situations. Unfortunately the 30D's custom functions does not have that option! Damn Canon, I don't know why they insist in tinkering with a good thing when they have it.
There is a workaround, although it's a little more cumbersome. On a 550EX CF3 can be set to 1, which is for TTL (as opposed to E-TTL). Since digital bodies don't work with TTL, the flash will not fire but you can still use AF assist. Of course an ST-E2 will work almost as well with less hassle, although some claim its AF-assist doesn't have the range of on-flash emitters. |
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Ron Bernardo, Photographer
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Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 10:50 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> Hi Steven,
get good fast lens. You will need wide and medium telephoto. I use Canon gears and 30D with 20D as back up. I mostly use EF-S 17-55 f/2.8, EF 10-22 and 70-200 f/2.8.
Get yourself good reliable strobes or flash with good power source and back up.
No good marketing strategy I can recommend, it will solely be up to you how good you are on your clients.
Weddings are good money makers and they pay the bills. |
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Drew Buchanan, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Fort Walton Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 12:05 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Wes, by chimping, I just meant don't stand in the corner of the ballroom staring at the back of your camera. It looks very unprofessional.
Good luck Steven! |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> - Any potential pitfalls I should be aware of?
Have a contract that clearly lays out the rules for other photographers and video crews.
You don't want the bride's aunt (or anyone else) taking the couples limited time with you to take her own creative shots.
You also must announce publicly what the conduct of others with cameras should be during the formal photos. We do this at the beginning by announcing that they may take photos, but they may not request we stop for them or interfer with what we are doing.
The contract is very important as this can also help you get your model release. I have it in mine so I have rights released by the couple to use their images for marketing. |
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Caleb Simpson, Photographer, Assistant
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 12:41 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Looks like everybody has pretty much hit on what I would have said. The only other thing I would suggest is to make sure the bride knows your style of shooting and what it involves. Also make sure she is communicating with her wedding coordinator about this. I recently shot a wedding and the coordinator wouldn’t give me more than 20 minutes to do group portraits AND bride/groom portraits. Not enough time to give the couple the quality of work I want to deliver, she also began to tell me the order of events and when I could "pose" my shots. It appeared this coordinator had never encountered a documentary style shooter. She thought I was being a smart a** when I told her I don’t pose my shots.
I will give a second thumbs up for http://www.wpja.com. They bring the most traffic to my website. I am also sending you a PM on a shooting opportunity for you to get lots of practice shooting weddings. |
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
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Palm Desert | CA | USA | Posted: 12:43 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Hi Steven, I agree with what everyone has said so far, so I won't get into those subjects. I'll talk about a couple of other things.
In my brochure it states, "A wedding may be canceled any time up to 30 days prior to the wedding date, but after 30 days there is a $200 cancellation fee. There is a non-refundable booking charge of $25 to save the date. The $25 booking fee is included in the price of your wedding package." You can word this in a variety of ways.
I also have another phrase that talks about payment. "Complete payment is required 5 business days prior to the wedding." I used to get paid on the wedding day, but one time I ran into someone who said that they had an unexpected expense and wondered if they could pay me the following week. It was a little scary, but I got paid. To avoid situations like that, the "5 business days prior to the event" helps to solve the problem. I still get people who don't pay by the 5 days, and I don't really mind because that means I still get paid one or two days prior to the event, which is my main goal. One time I had one bride and groom make weekly payments to me.
A friend of mine has the bride and groom sign a legal contract, which pretty much keeps the bride and groom from suing him if they don't like their photos. I never got into that part, but you might consider a contract. I have a money-back guarantee. If they don't like the photos, they can get a full refund minus the booking fee. The problem for the bride and groom is, they cannot receive any photos from me if they ask for a refund. I've never given a refund nor have I had anyone ask for a refund. Of course, since I've mentioned this, I've now doomed myself.
Before I leave the wedding, I ask the bride and groom if there are any photos that I have not taken. This is a great way to prevent any future problems. At my last wedding, I forgot to take some family photos that had been requested at the church. We ran out of time at the church because a mass followed the wedding. Because I asked this question, I prevented some potential problems. I took the photos they requested and then went home even though I went past my 8 hours of photography. When I created the parent wedding albums, I was happy to see that those requested photos were selected for the parent albums. It just reaffirmed how important those photos were to these people. |
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Al Santos, Photographer
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Silver Spring | MD | USA | Posted: 1:13 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Hi Steven,
Lots of great advice already.
I shot a wedding this past weekend. I used a D200 with a 17-55 as my main camera and a D2H with 70-200mm. For flash, I have several SB800. Ended up buying a Really Right Stuff portrait package flash bracket, expensive but well worth it and much better than GF's lightsphere, which I am currently using as a popcorn container. ;^)
As far as pricing, mine starts at around $1800 but I do not offer prints, just high end digital images. I just do not like the hassle of providing prints and albums. I do not advertise and all of my wedding gigs have been through word of mouth.
One last advice, make sure you have plenty of batteries for your flash and have fun!
Some highlights from my wedding gig.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/asantos/rfw/ |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Steven,
You need to decide what type of wedding photography you want to shoot. Traditional, photojournalism etc....
You need a contract with everything written on it. From who owns the copyrights right down to your meal.
Find your target audience and market to them. If you want high end clients market yourself as a high end photographer and charge accordingly. Like many have said here, there are all kinds of weddings, from intimate small gatherings to flamboyant $400 a plate - black tie, society gatherings.
THIS ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT: Make sure the couple you are going to photograph is very comfortable with your style, and the way you work, and the end product. This includes albums, on-line galleries, prints, etc......
Insurance, also very important.
Equipment - I have shot with everything from an FM2 - (I shot an entire wedding with 1 FM2 - a 35mm and an 85mm all in BW film) They loved the photos. It was however a small wedding.
I have used 2 1/4 medium format, holgas and digital. I leave this one to whatever you are comfortable shooting with.
If I think of anything else I'll add to this thread.
Check out some of the following sites:
kdog.com/blackdog/one.html
http://www.caytonphotography.com/
http://www.zelmanphoto.com/main.htm
Very different approaches to wedding photography. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:54 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Steven,
Consider joining the PPA if you are going to be shooting weddings regularly. They have great advice, and will let you network with other wedding photographers in your area. If you are going to be offering printed proofs, think about who will be your vendor. I've used WHCC.com for several years and always had great results. Your contract will be the only safety net should something go wrong. E-mail me if you would like a sample of mine. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> I require a $200 reservation fee. This is not refundable as you're turning work away due to a reservation.
Cancellations must be in writing as that will serve as a legal document in case of suit. I also follow up on cancelations with a phone call.
A stipulation of my contract is that while I hold the copyright to the images, I have no legal responsibility to archive the images once the contractual obligations are met. This serves to protect me in case of data loss through corruption of disks, fire or just abandonment.
One gripe I've come up with about my own photos is I really hate my cake cutting photos. I'm planning to add a second light source next year with a remote flash so they have more edge. Many times the cakes are set up in poorly lit areas so I've got to change what I'm doing.
I try to advise couples that they should decorate their front table and cake areas well. A baren cinderblock wall really doesn't make for good backgrounds.
I also tell them that most the weddings I've shot it's best if they feed their guests quickly. If the couple has another location they intend to be photographed at while the guests go the reception, it's best to just feed them. Most people are happy to have a full tummy and wait for the couple. But if the guests sit around a smell catered food for 45 min to an hour, they tend to get pissy. |
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Carlos Delgado, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 2:29 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> quick question to add to the mix...
how do you land your first wedding gig if you don't have a "wedding portfolio" yet?
I "shot" an uncle's wedding as a favor a few years ago when I was barely starting out and the pictures really are laughable...
I've come a LONG way since then, but there's no way to prove it to a potential customer/bride.
I was referred by word of mouth, they asked me to send some wedding samples, and I had to let that one go since I had no samples.
Any advice? |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> When you book client it should not be a deposit, but a non-refundable retainer.
My retainer is 50% of the total package the client is signing for. My typical retainer is $2,000+ The final paymentis due 21 days prior to the wedding date. Any cancelation of the wedding within 60 days of the wedding requires the couple to pay the entire contracted fee.
A $200 booking fee is easily walked away from, a $2,000 retainer is never just walked away from.
Do your business homework!!!
My portfolio is about to be shredded and updated in the next few days. My web site will be shredded and redone in the next few months and my rates are being raised quite a bit on either Oct 15 or Nov 1.....but this is my U.S. wedding site
http://www.fishfoto.com
Also feel free to check out my blog at http://blog.fishfoto.com
I only really started to focus on weddings in February 2006 (only a few months ago) and for 2006 my weddings have taken me to five countries on three continents and into each time zone in the continental U.S.......... and I have almost no marketing
One place to avoid is The Knot. The ad money is a total waste. I have been tryingto get taken off the Knot since a few days after it went up. Knot brides are cheap and seem to want the world for a dollar. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 3:29 PM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> Steven is the Nano a gift to the bride and groom? very cool idea. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 3:40 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Louis
The Nano will no longer be offered in Package #1....and it is not a gift. The couple is paying for it and know they are getting it.
The little random books I send the bride leading up to the wedding are gifts |
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Landon Finch, Photographer
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Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 3:58 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Carlos,
Team up with an established wedding photog. I assisted/shot several weddings with an experienced photographer before even thinking about shooting a wedding on my own. I just found her on the web and emailed her asking if I could assist/shadow just to see how she worked.
Assisting is great...no pressure, but the opportunity to make great images. |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 4:03 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> I started a company with 2 friends (3chicksthatclick.com) and our main camera/lenses so far have been:
D200 and D2x's
18-200mm
SB800's
Gary Fong lightsphere
In the car we have extra's of everything JUST IN CASE. We also bring laptops and for added security, we download the cards.
Armando-I think it is quite easy to offer a mixture of "traditional" and "photojournalistic" images. We do both.
We have been having a ball.
And liability insurance is a must-some halls will not let you shoot without it.
Debbie |
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Marvin Gentry, Photographer
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Birmingham | AL | USA | Posted: 4:11 PM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> Steve you are so right about retainer. There is a local photographer here in Birmingham that just had 5 brides cancel on him after they decided uncle joe's pics looked good enough for them. Make the retainer high enough that you are comfortable with your day rate. |
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 5:09 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Hey Steven,
How's it going over in rainy land?
My first question is whether or not you have shot a wedding yet? This is important because you need some marketing material to show potential brides to convince them that you can handle their big day.
Equipment: At the minimum a DSLR with at least 6 megapixels. Oh, and a backup body just in case. My primary wedding lens is my old 80~200 F2.8 L and I use a 28~135 IS for my formal group shots. I'm just now getting ready to purchase a 16~35 F2.8, a 70~200 F2.8 and a new body, probably the Canon 5D.
Pricing is the difficult one. It will depend on the packages you plan on offering. If I were you I'd have one half day package and one full day package. Check out the wedding photojournalist web site for pricing in your area. http://www.wpja.com/
Most of us who shoot weddings on this site are more photojournalistic in style. Most brides want that these days. However, be prepared to shoot some formal shots of the wedding party and families of the bride and groom.
I will also be changing my pricing structure upwards in the near future. One of the other areas you may want to explore is senior photos for the local high schools. This is also a lucrative sideline.
Cheers and welcome to sportsshooter.com
Oh, by the way, the Mirror just lost their main reporter to Mt. Vernon and the Skagit Valley Record. |
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 5:17 PM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> A good macro lens in not essential but does help with some detail shots especially with the bride and groom rings with a floral arraingement. I agree with Landon, assist first, get the pacing and get comfortable before venturing out on your own. -K |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 5:52 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Landing your first real wedding is not as difficult as it may seem... I have landed clients purely on my non-wedding portfolio. Show your clients your best images.
Debra, I agree with you that it is "easy," to provide traditional and documentary images of a wedding. However, I don't want my clients to expect that - because that is not what I want to be known for. I am not a traditional wedding photographer, therefore I don't want to provide traditional wedding images. And I make that clear to my clients. (I will shoot a small number of group shots - nothing fancy)
It is a decision that is specific to my business model.
I once photographed a wedding with a friend - Alex Diaz, we talked to the clients about our style of shooting, we showed them our documentary work. They hired us. But, since we were unfocused as to what we wanted to do we agreed to shoot formals of the family and traditionals. We spent close to 2 hours doing these. It wasn't fun, it was tedious, but in the end those were the photos they picked. Our documentary work was overlooked because who they really wanted was a traditional wedding photographer. The bride was even telling me about a rose like pose with her and her bridesmaids - "something like my sister has in her album." I obliged - but the lesson was learned.
There are thousands of ways to shoot weddings. You have to find what best fits you, your style and foremost your business model.
I also have a retainer fee that is 50% of the entire wedding. It is non-refundable. The balance is paid the day of the wedding or before.
I am enjoying this thread it is very informative. Keep it up. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:18 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Think reliable, two of everything. There are no reruns. I just shot two weddings yesterday in Las Vegas and the receptions (yes two, with an second shooter and makeup artist/assistant).
One couple came up to me and told me about their wedding a few months ago in Hawaii. The photos were horrible, the photographer made excuses like his "batteries were low". The husband told me that his wife has been crying every time she thinks about it.
Personally I would not want to be responsible for that kind of failure. So I take no chances, that has always been my way of doing things.
By the way I will be shooting that couple down at the beach, her in her wedding dress, he in his tux, my makeup artist doing her hair and makeup. Do you know how happy they will be with that after this other guy failed them on their wedding day! |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 3:34 AM on 10.03.06 |
->> Steven, I worded that wrong, what I meant to say was the Nano included in the price of the package, or was it a type of "loaner" for a specified lenght of time.
Either way you answered my question.
Would you mind elaborating on the "The little random books I send the bride leading up to the wedding are gifts"
Thanks.
Nice images. |
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Ben Chen, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 10.03.06 |
->> Steven, I started shooting more weddings about one year ago. So far it has been keep me very busy. Just like any other photography, the most important thing in getting started in the wedding photography is to build a portfolio then a professional website.
Unlike in the editorial business, you are no longer dealing with the professionals (editors, photographers, publishers, SIDs, PR Department…); you are now trying to sell your services to someone who knows nothing about photography, the brides. Often decisions are make not on photographic merits, rather, it’s entirely base on emotional reasons. You are now not competing with full-time professional photographers who is highly skilled with top-of-the-line camera bodies and 400mm lenses; instead you are competing with many weekend warriors with prosummer gears and a slick marketing strategy. When I first started, I was critiqued by an experienced female wedding photographer that my website had no “emotional connections” to the potential brides. My images and the website was too “matter-of-fact”. In an effort to capture this elusive “emotional connections” in hoping to gain more bookings, I have spend several thousand dollars and hired a recent bride/web designer and gave her complete artistic freedom to totally redesigned my website. I now get much better responses from potential brides and I hate to admit it, I still don’t know what exactly I was missing. You can view my wedding website at http://socalpixels.com.
So here is my advice to you: first, assist as many established wedding photographers as possible to see a variety of styles and gain experiences. Make sure you negotiate that you have the rights to use the images you have captured as a second shooter for your website. You will be surprised that most of wedding photographers WILL NOT ALLOW you to use the images you have captured for your website. Once you have gain the experience and gather a good portfolio then hire a professional wedding photography web designer to design your site. Remember, you are targeting brides who has no idea about the technical aspect of the photography, they are simply seeking “emotional connection” with a photographer via website images. Lastly, immediately join Digital Wedding Forum (DWF), the equivalent of SS in the wedding photography industry. They have a free 30-day trail period. Just like SS here, it will be the best money you can invest on wedding photography education. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me, I will be glad to share with you my experiences. Best of luck, Ben |
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Scott Bush, Photographer
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Clifton | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:58 AM on 10.03.06 |
->> Fish said what I was going to say about retainers and cancellation fee. If like Drew you have a $200 cancellation fee if they cancel under 30 days, this is very easily for the couple. But as a photographer, you probably lost more because you reserved the date well in advance and turned away dates. Definitely do you homework.
But I will disagree with the Fish on the Knot. I've been on there for a year and a half and it easily makes it worthwhile. I guess it depends on your location and clientelle. When I first started, my prices were lower, so it worked. Now that they are higher, it still works because even though most brides may flinch at my starting price listed on the knot, the knot is a HUGE information resource for brides. And they have forums! You can look at the forums and see how much info the brides past to each other on vendors, cheap or expensive.
Advertising has no silver bullet. You just have to find what works for you.
Plus, i think the knot may not work for the Fish because look where all his weddings are, all over the world. I want to know how he books THOSE jobs! |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 10.03.06 |
->> "Would you mind elaborating on the "The little random books I send the bride leading up to the wedding are gifts" "
Louis:
When a bride books with me, my wife goes out and finds "wedding related" books and just sends them off every few months. We have sent books like
The Anti-Bride Wedding Guide
The Story of Us
101 Reasons To Not Kill Your Fiance
The Grooms Guide : Remember Your Wrong
Emily Post's Wedding Ettiquette
We base the books on the bride's personality. Most of my brides are a not traditional, so getting books that are fun, are well....just more fun.
Brides then tell their friends I am sending them these things, unprompted, and when friends get married I get refered. In fact I met a couple who ended up not booking me (I was to expensive for three days in Hawaii) but I sent the bride a book on bring a bride in Hawaii anyway. Now five months after meeting the bride who did not meet me, her friend called, because she (she being the bride who did not book me) has been referring me to all her friends.
Little things like that seem to work |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:08 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> A 50 percent NON-REFUNDABLE deposit upon contract signing is a good idea. Don't take any crap about this because the hall and the caterer and the band and the florist and everybody else usually gets 100 percent up front with no refunds. Tell them the balance will be due at the end of the night.
Get the wedding insert from your local paper and check out a few of the most popular event sites. See how much THEY charge for a wedding rental. You can deflect, "That's very expensive" with, "The hall you're renting is costing you $10,000 and my pictures will last longer than the eight hours that you're paying them for."
Never take the gig if the bride and groom are both lawyers. If only one is then it might be okay.
If you start to get bad vibes while you're showing your portfolio and pimping for the gig, politely turn it down. Don't be afraid to say, "I think you may be looking for someone that shoots in a style different from mine." Be prepared to walk away.
Always be nice to grandparents and ALWAYS take the time to do a couple of nice head shots of any family member over the age of 60. I have had at least a half dozen calls, sometimes years after, thanking me for that as those pictures turned out to be the last good pictures taken of Grandma/Grandpa before they died. The family will remeber you for that and recommend you to other people.
You can do all of your group shots in 15 minutes IF you're prepared to be firm. Order people about. Tell the bride's family to gather to your right and the groom's to your left and then move them into and out of the shots depending on who you want in the picture.
If you're single always go for the third bridesmaid. The maid of honor is probably married or engaged and the second bridesmaid is usually dating someone. A disgruntled sister-of-the-bride is also a good bet. A disgruntled sister-of-the-bride that is also a lesser bridesmaid is an excellent bet.
Ask for the use of a "spotter" from each family. Let them lead you around for ten minutes and tell you who everyone on their side is.
Ask if there are any... "Family Conflicts"... Like the father of the bride that ran off with his secretary who he's insisted on bringing to the wedding just to piss off Mom. Like the two uncles that get into a fight whenever they start drinking. Watch for those uncles to finally make nice with each other and grab a shot of their first hand shake in 15 years.
Don't ask IF you're going to get fed, ask WHEN you're going to get fed and where.
Don't discuss politics, religion or college football.
If you're anywhere but New York a simple, "The Yankees Suck" will be applauded and appreciated.
Bring lots of business cards. Every bride has at least three friends that are engaged or about to be engaged. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 12:08 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> Scott:
1) I love the proofing box you have! I don't do proofs, but if I did I'd love that concept!
2) You are correct that The Knot works for some and not others. Over the 7+ months I have been on The Knot in CT, NV, N.Cal (and trying to get removed) on the front page in CT & NV, and on the 2nd page in N.Cal I have recieved a total of three inquiries from the ads and two from referals of brides who booked me (and found me) through other sources and zero bookings. Other much less expensive options have netted me 20 of my bookings, the other bookings for 2006 are referals from other photogs.
I find The Knot is gearing the brides that read it to spend less and want more. Three of the brides who contacted me where very high maintenence and all wanted to play lets make a deal. One wanted a discount for a mid-July wedding because she was getting married at a great resort which she thought would look great in my portfolio.
Marketing is like underwear. It is a personal choice and not every option is comfortable for each person.
.......as for wanting to know how to "book those jobs," ask my wife. She tells me she we need more money, so I keep looking for new markets.
(with a 3rd kid arriving in February, and two large dogs, we have out grown our house and our car, so I do see her point of needing more income). |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> "A 50 percent NON-REFUNDABLE deposit upon contract signing is a good idea. Don't take any crap about this because the hall and the caterer and the band and the florist and everybody else usually gets 100 percent up front with no refunds. Tell them the balance will be due at the end of the night. "
Jim:
At the end of the night?
With this option the bride & groom can forget their check book. They can be out of money and write you a bad check, etc etc etc.
My final payment is due 21 days prior to the wedding date.
21 days gives me time to get a check in, clear it, and make sure the funds are not faux funds. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 10.03.06 |
| ->> One more thing. If you like to travel think about accepting frequent flyer miles (in the form of Business Class tickets to, say, Europe) instead of some of the cash. If the bride and groom are really paying for the wedding themselves and are freaking out about costs they might not realize that the 350,000 United miles they have worth something. American Express Membership Miles are even better. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> "At the end of the night?
With this option the bride & groom can forget their check book. They can be out of money and write you a bad check, etc etc etc."
They don't get any pictures until I get the money. If someone writes you a bad check (and I haven't had that happen in 20-odd years of doing weddings) then you can have them arrested.
If I have a feeling that there's even the chance of someone writing me a bad check I turn down the gig. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 12:19 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> Jim
Makes sense.
For me, since most of my weddings are around 3,000 miles from home, I use the final payment for hotel, car, food, etc etc.
PS:
For working on the west coast, I find refering the brides I am unable to work with due to date conflicts, the best option is just giving them Ben Chen's number and let him shoot the gig :0) |
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Ron Alvey, Photographer
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Lebanon | OH | USA | Posted: 1:01 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> Carlos,
About how to land your first wedding gig. What worked well for me, when I lived in Valdosta Georgia, I visited one of the local wedding stores. I talked to the owners about taking some pictures of them in their wedding gowns to put up in the store. They loved the idea. So I spent a couple hours shooting and made them about half a dozen prints of which they hung in the store. They also allowed me put put business cards at their front counter. It worked very well. |
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Ben Chen, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:02 PM on 10.03.06 |
| ->> I am with Fish on the Knot thing. I have been advertising with them since 1/06 at $430/mo. So far, I got ZERO booking from it. In fact, I only have received 3 email inquires of which none would return my call or my email. I can’t wait until my contract run out at the end of the year. As for WPJA, I am listed as #81 out of 131 listing in So Cal. I have very little inquires and no bookings yet. Ben |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:25 PM on 10.03.06 |
->> Well, The Knot worked well for the company I have with a friend (3chicksthatclick.com). We are now working on referrals which is what we wanted.
EVERYONE has commented on our name-they love it. They said the name of our company and the fact that we are woman was what drew them to us first. We have had several men ask if they can come on board and be the ____ (rhymes with chick:) and we hire them out when needed.
As I previously said, we are having a great time.
Debbie |
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Dan Nickerson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Tacoma | wa | | Posted: 3:41 PM on 10.09.06 |
->> Great thread, thanks for starting it. I have a quick question to add.
How do you seasoned pros meet with potential clients? Do you have a studio, meet at a Starbucks, or not at all?
Thanks! |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 4:09 PM on 10.09.06 |
->> Dan:
For myself, most of my weddings are "destination". People coming here to the Palm Springs area to get married from somewhere else. Or I am traveling or flying to their area or destination to shoot their wedding. So most everything is done by them viewing a prior wedding online, telephone and e-mail. Sometimes I ship out some sample prints. But I also have a strong referral base and reputation. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 5:06 PM on 10.09.06 |
->> "About how to land your first wedding gig"
Visit bridal shops in your area or call a couple of wedding planners and ask about upcoming bridal shows. Sign on (it could cost you $200 to $500 depending on the show) and display sample prints and talk to every potential bride who stops by your booth. Collect contact info and call with a follow-up a few days after the show to see if you can book their wedding. In my area we have shows two periods a year, November and January. I know guys who fill their summer calendar from doing one or two of these shows. |
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Will Godfrey, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 6:25 PM on 10.09.06 |
->> Dan,
Most of my contact is initially through my website and/or the annual bridal show I attend. More and more I am getting referrals from other brides which is a testament to the work I've done.
I always offer to meet with the bride and groom, but since I don't have a studio, I meet them as a location of their choosing, usually at a local bookstore/coffee shop.
I also offer my clients a free engagement session which we usually work into our initial meeting. This gives them a chance to get to know me and also to receive a gift. They appreciate it and it solidifies my standing with them.
Cheers |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 5:36 PM on 10.10.06 |
->> .........if anyone is bored, I just changed the portfolio and pricing on my North American wedding site http://www.fishfoto.com
The best advice, I think , is still probably found at the Digital Wedding Forum. The DWF has some real heavy hitters in the wedding world who are active on the boards. Most of them accept private messages, and as long as your question is not "what camera is best" and has some basis, they will usually answer you back in a fairly short amount of time.
On a business note, when you start the busines, have a long term plan. I am now 12 months into my 24 month business plan and am refiguring the plan to adjust to my current needs as I approach the 2nd half of my 24 month plan. Knowing your start up market and and intended long term market will go a long way towards you start up approach. |
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