| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
New NCAA rules for selling images to athletes
Amir Gamzu, Photographer
 |
Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 6:09 PM on 10.01.06 |
->> Ok, at this point I will simply say this is a rumor. The person I heard if from is somewhat likely to have given only the information they wanted me to know. But this is what I heard;
Recently there had been a NCAA ruling that photographers can sell images to parents/fans/athletes/etc. According to my source, that was part I of a two part review that happens for all NCAA rules. When it came up for review part II recently, it was totally reversed and now no 3rd party photographer can sell images.
This may also be a conference rule and not an NCAA, I will do some fact finding this week and share what I learn. Does anyone else have any information? |
|
Max Waugh, Photographer
 |
Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 8:08 PM on 10.01.06 |
->> Amir, my SID told me this summer that the NCAA shot down the third party sales rule. My understanding is that the sales have to be done through the school. I don't believe this prevents photographers from having their images sold, but it may affect how the photos (and more importantly, photo rights) are controlled.
Max |
|
Brian Westerholt, Photographer
 |
Kannapolis | NC | USA | Posted: 8:25 PM on 10.01.06 |
->> I was sent this e-mail by an SID of a Southern Conference school. He received this from the SoCon offices:
***********************************************************
Please share with your Sports Information folks. Nothing new; just further confirmation of what Membership Services has been telling me since October of 2005.
Educational Column -- NCAA Division I Bylaws 12.5.2.1, 12.5.2.1.2 and 12.5.2.2 (Third Party Sale of Student-Athlete Photographs) (I)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Issued: Sep 12, 2006
Type: Ed. Column
Item Ref: 1
Interpretation:
NCAA Division I institutions are reminded that current legislation does not permit an individual or agency (e.g., private photographer, news agency) to sell photographs of student-athletes with remaining eligibility for private use. Rather, NCAA Division I Bylaw 12.5.2.2 relieves the student-athlete (or the institution acting on behalf of the student-athlete) from the obligation to take steps (e.g., send a cease and desist request) to stop such an activity in order to retain his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics.
During its April 6, 2005, teleconference, the NCAA Division I Academics/Eligibility/Compliance Cabinet Subcommittee on Legislative Review/Interpretations noted that such steps are unnecessary inasmuch as legal precedent affords individuals and agencies the right to sell photographs for private use. Further, the subcommittee noted that if a student-athlete's name or picture appears on any other commercial items or is used to promote a commercial product or service, the student-athlete (or the institution acting on behalf of the student-athlete) is required to take steps (e.g., send a cease and desist request) to stop such an activity in order to retain his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics.
It is not permissible for an institution to permit (e.g., through a written agreement with a third-party) the sale of student-athlete photographs by an individual or agency for private use. The misuse of a student-athlete's picture in this manner continues to be a violation of Bylaw 12.5.2.1.
[References: Bylaws 12.5.2.1 (advertisements and promotions subsequent to enrollment); 12.5.2.1.2 (improper use of student-athlete's name or picture) and 12.5.2.2 (use of a student-athlete's name or picture without knowledge or permission)]
***********************************************************
So I have removed the photos of his school from my Printroom account until he is told it is OK for me to sell them. He has been INUNDATED by parents who want to know why they can't buy action photos of their kids. |
|
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
 |
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 1:09 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> From the Collegiate Images May newsletter:
hhttp://http://www.collegiateimages.com/newsletter/newsletter_may2006.html
INDUSTRY NEWS
"NCAA CURRENT STUDENT-ATHLETES PHOTO SALES
The proposed legislation to allow third parties to sell photographs of current student athletes in the same manner as the sale of highlights and media guides has been defeated..." |
|
Chris Machian, Photographer, Assistant
 |
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 1:46 AM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> I am sorry, but I am a bit confused. Does that mean I can't sell my images to another newspaper, or is this just about selling prints? |
|
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 3:59 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> The topic specifically seems to be on photographers selling photographs to athletes, parents, fans, etc.
Your question is concerning what's called "secondary use" ... selling the photos to another publication other than the one that credentialed you for the event.
Major schools and conferences; teams and leagues; and events themselves will have a credential use agreement printed on the backs of their credentials and often mail out a document to organizations spelling out their policies.
Most credentials I've seen these days limit the use of images you shoot at a game or event to the organization that the credential is issued to. This often can be waived by calling the school or team. But if you follow the language on most credentials, secondary use is often not permitted.
Check with the SID or media relations department of the school or team you will be dealing with to find out their policy.
This is a huge problem ... there is no uniformity in the policy of schools/teams and enforcement is inconsistent. If you want to stay in the good graces of the school/team a call to them is a really good idea.
Mahalo. |
|
Joe Nicola, Photographer
 |
Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 10:50 AM on 10.02.06 |
->> I noticed what Mr. Hanashiro is referring to--the inconsistency of policy regarding sales--on the backs of four credentials issued to me by different universities. Three of them don't even mention such a policy, though I agree it would be a good idea to check with them before proceeding into a sales venture. The other was from the University of Texas, where it was very specific about what could be done with the images. I even had to sign some sort of agreement that said I accepted the terms of their agreement before I could get me photo vest. I may have even signed over my next born child, but I'm not sure.
Anyway...good advice from Robert...check with the school to keep the peace. |
|
Jean Finley, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Iowa City | IA | USA | Posted: 11:56 AM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> How then, do newspapers get away with selling reprints? |
|
Brian Westerholt, Photographer
|
Kannapolis | NC | USA | Posted: 12:50 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Jean,
If you read the bylaw carefully, they are not supposed to be selling them either.
"NCAA Division I institutions are reminded that current legislation does not permit an individual or agency (e.g., private photographer, news agency) to sell photographs of student-athletes with remaining eligibility for private use."
I shoot for 2 Division I schools - one has asked me to stop selling prints, the other has said to keep doing so until he says otherwise. |
|
Gerald H. Ling, Photographer
 |
Storrs | CT | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> Don't mean to hijack the thread, but what if a photograph was taken of a student athlete by a private photographer and is used part of the photographer's portfolio? No sales or profit involved. |
|
Gene Boyars, Photographer
 |
Matawan | NJ | United States | Posted: 3:07 PM on 10.02.06 |
| ->> I also work for two D-1 schools and when I dumped this on one SID this morning, because I have a pending order from a soccer parent, his reply was "ugh"...."Let me check with complicance". This is not anything the SIDs want to deal with. |
|
Dave Prelosky, Photographer
 |
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 6:35 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Let me start with a disclaimer. I shoot perhaps 5 D-II football games annually, and another 10 or so basketball games. We don't do a big reprint business from these events, so any potential loss will have marginal effect on us.
Now two questions:
First - As the NCAA is a private body that colleges in the US rely on to determine who is and who is not eligible to participate in interscholastic compteition, and whose decisions are accepted with the force of law by those colleges, how do they control the business practices of a third party? Is the only carrot they can dangle the offer of credentials or withdrawl of the same? If I fly over - or stand in the middle of a public road - and shoot football from my local open ended, close to the road D-II field, can the NCAA restrict my output?
Second - Is there no communication with the NCAA directly? This message is filled with reports of communication with third parties, opinions, and speculation, but no information from a qualified source. Who really knows?
dp |
|
Jerry Laizure, Photographer, Assistant
|
Norman | OK | USA | Posted: 9:24 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Here is the NCAA interpretation of the bylaw that addresses photo sales. The NCAA typically does not publish these determinations.
Sale of a Photograph of an Individual Student-Athlete Engaged in Practice or Competition. (I) The membership services staff determined that it is permissible for an institution to sell a photograph of an individual student-athlete that is taken while he or she is engaged in practice or competition, provided the photograph is not included with or as a part of another commercial item (e.g., coffee mug, autographed photograph, T-shirt). The staff confirmed that an institution may not sell a photograph that is taken of an individual student-athlete in any other setting (e.g., photo shoot for media activities). [Reference: NCAA Division I Bylaw 12.5.1.1 (institutional, charitable, education or nonprofit promotions).]
Photo sales and licensing, along with video sales and licensing, are being developed by institutions as additional revenue streams.
For institutions with staff photographers, the process is easy, just create a photo store with one of the online vendors and they're in business.
For those of us who are not staff photographers the process is a bit more involved.
We were set up this summer to independently sell prints to student-athletes and their families. We initially were going to restrict sales to the student-athletes but the university's compliance office determined that such a setup would be giving preferable treatment to the student-athlete and told us we would have to sell to everyone. So we revised the store and were ready to launch.
At about the same time, the NCAA released the above interpretation and we were then asked by the university to make a proposal to partner with the institution in an online photo sales project. Rather than go independently, we decided to partner with the university to gain additional exposure (so to speak) with a link on the official university athletics web site. We just bumped up the prices to allow for the university's cut and we've been in business about two weeks.
A point of interest. If you do decide to partner with a school in an online project, the school will more than likely want to control the revenue. In our setup, the online vendor will send the monthly sales check to the university. The university will then remit the appropriate commissions to the photographer(s).
Chris Machian: It does not affect your editorial work. You do not sell photos to a newspaper, you LICENSE the use of your photographs.
Gerald Ling: I believe the use of images in a personal portfolio was decided several months ago. It is OK. Search the threads of this message board.
Dave Prelosky: You are correct. An NCAA member institution cannot control the business practices of a third party. That institution, however, can (and will) deny that third party a credential. |
|
Vern Verna, Photographer
 |
Greenville | SC | United States | Posted: 10:37 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Jerry, not to discount ur word but other sid will. is this online somewhere on the ncaa site?
Jean, as to newspapers selling reprints or mags for that matter. if si wants to come to joe smo univ. to put ur athlete potentially on the cover then every sid in the country will issue them a credential and look the other way when they sell the covers because they want the pub that si brings. the same goes for a newspaper just to a lesser degree so sometimes they look away and sometime they dont look away as much.
just for the record ap has a site where u can buy any ap photo out there and no sid will turn down ap. |
|
Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
 |
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 10:55 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Jerry,
I believe you are operating in what was a dark grey area to begin with that is getting darker all the time.
I know of at least two conferences that are set up the way you are - or at least were last year. On the other hand, when the school I work freelance for consulted the NCAA on whether our similar, proposed set up was OK at the beginning of last year (fall), they said unequivocally NO. The issue is institutional control. If you, the third party, are running the site, and giving the university a cut, then you're violating NCAA rules. The SCHOOL must administer the site and pay the photographer a cut according to the NCAA. The proposal that was defeated this summer would have allowed exactly what you are doing, and it was championed by the smaller schools without staff photographers and the resources to run their own photo sales operations. But...the proposal was defeated.
You're correct about what the NCAA can and can't control. It was misunderstanding of this basic fact that, I think, led to the mistaken belief that it was open season on photo sales when the NCAA made the ruling that athletes would not lose eligibility due to 3rd party sales. The NCAA turned their attention away from trying to prohibit sales and instead focused on controlling access and, indirectly, encouraging the institutions to cash in on the photo sales revenue stream themselves.
Chuck |
|
Jerry Laizure, Photographer, Assistant
|
Norman | OK | USA | Posted: 11:56 PM on 10.02.06 |
->> Vern: The interpretation was included in an Aug. 10, 2006, email to members of the Collegiate Commissioners Association Compliance Administrators (CCACA). If your SID is unfamiliar with the ruling, he should consult with his compliance officer.
Chuck: As I said previously, the university controls the site, receives the monthly sales check and then distributes commissions to the photographers.
Your attempt to create a photo store was attempted last fall prior to this summer's interpretation. I'm aware of some university's that actually shut down their photo stores for a few months until the interpretation was released. |
|
|| Sponsor Special Deals
Nikon D3 (refurbished demo!)
|
Available from:
Samy's Camera
|
Price: $3799.00 |
Notes:
We have 15 refurbished demo Nikon D3 cameras available. First come, first served! Comes with a 3 month manufacturer warranty, and extended warranties are available. Send an email to samys@sportsshooter.com, or call 866-726-9463 and identify yourself as a person from SportsShooter.
|
|
-- More Info -- |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|