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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

How many hits you you have on your portfolio?
Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 07.22.02
->> I've updated my portfolio three times with sports images, a story on Fern Ridge Lake, and currently a story on Old Growth Logging. I have 396 hits. I'm curious how many hits some of you have. I know I've looked at a good many portfolios and I have a feeling most members are surfing portfolios as well. I really enjoy it and have found several good ideas to steal.
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 07.22.02
->> Tom-

I have about 375 hits. I agree, there are a ton of nice images on this site, I too am getting some great ideas to borrow. By the way, I really like the troubled waters peice.
-Craig
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 1:17 AM on 07.22.02
->> I'm at 281, but unfortunately it looks like viewing your own page adds to the count.

Jason, is there anyway to have the counter not count yourself when viewing your own page while logged in to the site? (Did that sentence make sense?)
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Chriss Hoffman, Photographer
San Marcos | CA | USA | Posted: 3:07 AM on 07.22.02
->> I'm just curious as to where you see a hit indicator? I must be blind or is this some option I missed. Thanks.

-Chriss
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 7:54 AM on 07.22.02
->> My fixed page counter says I have 731 hits since I put my portfolio up. My work was last updated on July 1, 2002.

And no, I don't go to my own portfolio and keep hitting the reload button....that's what I have a personal web site for :0)
(
http://steven.frischling.com)
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Les Stukenberg, Photographer, Photo Editor
Prescott | AZ | USA | Posted: 9:20 AM on 07.22.02
->> Chriss, You can find the counter if go into the area where you would edit your profile/portfolio and look at the top of the page.
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 11:58 AM on 07.22.02
->> .
Steven,
I'm not saying anyone would try to "fix" their own page count (since no one can see it anyways). But after I update mine I go to it and make sure it looks like I want it to, so I inadvertently add to my own count. It just makes it a little harder to get an accurate number…
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
Albany | CA | USA | Posted: 3:42 PM on 07.22.02
->> The counter (found within your member page administration area) is meant to be a simple, quick and easy way to judge how well you are doing.

We've built a "resetable" counter into the page as well... so after your upload your new images, check your page to make sure it is all ok, you can go back to your user page admin area and click the "reset counter" button - just like you do with your car's odometer when you fill up your tank with gas.

Trying to screen out your page accesses from everyone else isn't something I'd like to have Jason working on when we've got - uh - much bigger things to work on. (Which I should be working on right now, actually.)
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 4:13 PM on 07.22.02
->> Thanks Grover. Want to give us any hints to these "much bigger things?"
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Jason Burfield, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 4:25 PM on 07.22.02
->> HA! We give no hints, only cool stuff for you guys to use!

If it's the one I think Grover is talking about, it really is H U G E ! Capitol letters across the board.

Keep your eyes open.
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 4:55 PM on 07.22.02
->> Alright. You can't blame me for trying though! My eyes are peeled...
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 7:08 PM on 07.22.02
->> I've figured out why FishFotoJr (Frischling) has so many hits. I just got 16 more today just from posting a message. Self promotion gone mad!!! I love it!!! I can't help myself!!!
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
Albany | CA | USA | Posted: 7:13 PM on 07.22.02
->> Now you're catching on, Thomas. The way this site is constructed, the more you use it, the more traffic you'll see going to your page.

Now that I've got that out of the way - hey, everyone, go check out the new livestock picture I put up on my page last night. (Click my name! CLICK MY NAME!)
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 8:00 PM on 07.22.02
->> Avocado powered? Interesting...
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 8:24 PM on 07.22.02
->> Thomas:

FishFotoJr, wow that is an e-mail address I have not had in years!!!

Anyway, if you look on my internet signature attached to the mail I sent to the NPPA-L, from my sefrischling@aol.com address, or my steven.frischling-v@corbis.com e-mail address I have added a direct link to my SportsShooters.com page.

Aside from adding the info to the end of my e-mail signatures, I have added the web address of www.sportsshooter.com/sefrischling to my profile on www.robgalbraith.com

I am a freelancer, like many folks, and shameless self promotion does not hurt! I am a bit of a photo hardware dweeb, I get around, and in the process I spread my web address everywhere I touch down :0)

I have to speak to a group of about 300 folks in Midland, Texas, the first week in Sept. The info for my random babbling has my web address. In the Sports section of my web site,
http://steven.frischling.com/photos/sports/ , the first thing on the top of my page is a link to SportsShooter.com

I am sure my shameless self promotion has increased the hits to my site (my personal site has a non-working counter) and to my page on SportsShooter.com

I am thinking of taking out a billboard in Times Square :0)
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 8:30 PM on 07.22.02
->> On a side note, since I posted I had 731 hits to my page on SportsShooter.com earlier today, I have had 10 more hits on my page.

Maybe I don't need the Times Square billboard....I should just take out ads in inflight magazines :0)
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Thomas Sapiano, Photographer, Student/Intern
Kleinburg (Toronto) | ON | Canada | Posted: 8:31 PM on 07.22.02
->> I'm up to 222. Have to dig up some more images from
my archives so I can get my icon back on that front
page, that does wonders for the count ;)

Anyway, it would be cool to eventually have some sort
of portfolio review function integrated into the system.
Kind of like the Q & A system, have users sign up for it
and allow us little guys able to request comment on our
pictures from the more experienced fellows here ;)

Maybe even some sort of automated picture of the week
system - ie put a page of new images entered into the
portfolio pages over a set period and let registered users
vote for the best one. Then give the winner's name play
on the index page for the week ;) Although, seeing the
other pictures in these galleries I'm not going to win, but
if they let me into that workshop maybe someday :D

Anyway, I'll stop now, as I'm sure Jason has enough work
to do right now and doesn't need me making more for him ;)
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Butch Owens, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | US | Posted: 9:37 PM on 07.22.02
->> Steven - Great idea on the Sports Shooter logo on your site. Just updated mine with the link to Sports Shooter. http://www.butchowensphotography.com/photo/sports/
Butch
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Jason Burfield, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:20 AM on 07.23.02
->> Thomas...

I actually brought up the idea of 'commenting' on member portfolios, but we scrapped it at one point during the building process...we feel that type of interaction is much better in a one-on-one type environment like the workshop & luau. (registered yet?)

With that in mind, we do have a few items still hidden away that will be out before you know it. I think you'll find them VERY cool and VERY usefull.
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Robert Dall, Photographer
Yellowknife | NT | Canada | Posted: 2:39 PM on 07.23.02
->> Guys I only have 191. Only 6 this week alone, Need some help here.

See pic of the northern lights, kids playing with ice,

Kids playing with ice!!!!! it doesn't get any better then that!!!!!!!

why www.sportsshooter.com/frozentoes

I never been able to keep my feet warm and toasty. I hate cold feet!!!!!
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David Madison, Photographer
Portola Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 3:55 PM on 07.23.02
->> In his message that started this thread, Thomas Boyd said "and have found several good ideas to steal".

Please, look at other photographers' work for creative inspiration or visual stimulation, but please don't steal someone else's ideas.

Our industry is already plagued by royalty free, by corporate rights-grabbing, by stagnant rates, etc....we don't need to make our situation even worse by stealing from ourselves, in our own forums!
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Thomas Sapiano, Photographer, Student/Intern
Kleinburg (Toronto) | ON | Canada | Posted: 8:29 PM on 07.23.02
->> Jason,

Quite true ;) I did apply for the workshop (almost right after it was posted), just waiting on a response as to weather I've been accepted or not ;) Looking foreward to that portfolio review session (actually am picking up a fancy new printer this week so I can add my digital stuff).
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 8:37 PM on 07.23.02
->> At first, I promptly composed a several searing responses to David Madison's posting (I was very pleased with myself, they were damn funny.) Then I looked at his website and saw that he shoots stock sports photography. It made me realize I touched a raw nerve with what I believed to be a harmless wise-ass remark.

His concern about photographer's "stealing" ideas seems silly to me as a staff newspaper photographer. But, once I looked at his work and thought about graphic images that are made to convey a concept instead of telling a story (mostly) it got me to thinking that if a photographer saw an image that he knew was a big seller, he could conceivably replicate the basic elements of that image and place it with a competing agency.

When I said "steal ideas" I think most of you knew that I meant using particular lighting technique, angle, format, or whatever and applying to another type of shoot. When Madison saw that, he took it literally for good reason.

With that, I challenge David Madison to start another thread addressing some of the problems he has in the stock business particularly with regard to other photographers replicating another photographer's image. Or, is it even a concern?
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 10:15 PM on 07.23.02
->> I got what you meant Thomas.

I'd also be really interested in reading the new thread you suggest...David?
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David Madison, Photographer
Portola Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 11:06 PM on 07.23.02
->> This is an opportunity I can't pass up. First, let me say I am impressed with Thomas Boyd's non-flammatory response to my posting. I fully expected to receive full web flames by return post, such is the nature of the web these days. Thomas shows great restraint in not posting his original thoughts...possibly aided by the Sportsshooter's site very cool feature of showing just what your post is going to look like, before you actually post. Almost like an un-send button....

I'm happy to share some thoughts on this topic. For those of you who don't know me, I'm generally considered an "old-timer"...after more than a quarter century in the business, eleven Olympic Games, etc...I probably qualify as such. I certainly qualify if measured by the "large forehead" yardstick. My first SLR was a Miranda Sensorex (It was one of the best-selling SLR's of its time. We might have to submit that one for carbon dating.)

I have been producing sports imagery for the stock industry for many years, selling both directly and through a network of agencies worldwide.

Yes, the issue of image concept stealing is a big one in the stock industry...Here's a few things to think about:

> Many stock agencies have forgone the age-old practice of showing "best-sellers" to an audience of photographers for the simple reason that the agency was soon inundated with a flood of look-a-like images coming in from their photographers who had seen the show.

> I have seen countless imitations of my work; there is one photographer active in the industry whose stock advertising each year looked remarkably similar to my stock advertising work of the previous year, right down to the typefaces I used in the ads.

> One of the potentially nastiest ogres to come to life recently is that of the mega-agency. When an agency owns multiple brands of stock, including royalty free and rights managed brands; and has the same "art directors" managing the creative process for all the brands, it really gives you pause. What is to stop that art director from going out the next week and directing a royalty-free shoot of the same thing you sent last week?

> What does the art director/editor at an agency do when they have a group of top-selling images from a photographer, but that photographer hasn't "updated" that subject/concept in a while...and then some new stuff comes in from someone else that is basically the same thing, only newer? Happens regularly.

> How 'bout when the spouse of a photographer is employed at an agency and presumably has access to the sales figures for all images, and then that photographer starts submitting knockoffs of best sellers to that agency? True story.

> How 'bout when same duo then takes their act to another agency with a copy of former agency's catalogs, with best-sellers marked up, and says we can deliver similar material to you, do you want it????? True story.

> And then there are the "illustrators" who use your photo as the basis for their illustration, but aren't talented enough to change the artwork enough so you don't recognize it. I have had this happen numerous times, and usually have had my invoice paid promptly by the end-user company when they receive a well-written letter advising them of the problem. But there must be hundreds more that the photographer never sees. Or the cases where the similarity is borderline, you are sure you are right, but it just isn't worth it to pursue. I've got one like that right now with a huge German auto parts company (think spark plugs).

Now when you think about the legal aspects of all this, the basics of copyright law are that you cannot copyright an idea, merely it's execution. And this gets back to Thomas's followup message, that he really meant that you could take a lighting idea, etc and apply it to a different shoot. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! This is different than a replication of the visual idea itself. And as Thomas points out, it is probably harder to do in the daily newspaper biz than in what I do, though I don't know much about the newspaper photographer business.

Personally, I don't believe there is much that an individual can do about persons copying their work. You can copyright your work, but do you want to deal with the legal hassles and costs of enforcement? You can subject a copier to public professional embarassment, which I have seen done to great effect in the past. But basically, it is difficult to do much on a consistent ongoing basis. Mostly you just swallow hard and go on.

My personal approach is to try that much harder to stay ahead of the copiers...for success in the stock photo biz goes largely to the innovators, not the imitators, all other things being equal. I am constantly honing my techniques, research, working methods, market knowledge, and business practices to that end. It has been working for me for a long time.

So next time we all browse a magazine or a portfolio forum, think about what you see from a creative point of view. Don't think about replicating exactly what you see. Think about what you see and and let your mind run to new ways of applying the idea -- to your own unique work.
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
Albany | CA | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 07.24.02
->> David! That was excellent. Thanks for posting that.

Before I got lost somewhere in the internet, I shot pictures for newspapers. While reading your post I was reminded how, each year, after the annual POY book was mailed to every NPPA member, the idea copying/technique copying process would begin - in the newspaper photojournalism world.

You'd see really similar winning-image copycats the following year.

Maybe now that there really isn't a NPPA / POY contest and or book (it is all confusing now anyway, isn't it?) it won't be so easy.

Anyway - all this just to say thanks for the really educational post.
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 07.24.02
->> I admit Sportsshooter's "second chance" feature saved David Madison from a red-hot flamer response and me from embarrassing myself. Maybe next time:)

I'm really grateful it worked out that way. Madison's response blew me away. I had no idea all that goes on in the stock business.
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 2:34 AM on 07.24.02
->> David, great post. Thank you for sharing.
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Robert Benson, Photographer
Virginia Beach | VA | USA | Posted: 8:23 PM on 07.24.02
->> 145 since July 15. Moments.
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Wally Nell, Photographer
LA MESA | CA | USA | Posted: 10:32 PM on 07.24.02
->> Yeah well no fine, so far I have only 146, and I have been on for almost a month already!! Perhaps because my portfolio is a little wider than sports-only.
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Jason Burfield, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:25 PM on 07.24.02
->> Ok...I figured I might as well stick a post in here...

There are couple of things to realize when you are talking 'hits' to your individual page...

First of all, this site has been up for one month. You need to give some more people time to find us and discover the MASSIVE amount of stuff we have here...this is already going on, but it's going to grow more and more each day.

Second, this site really rewards those of you who 'promote' yourselves through verious channels...A) update your page, B) post to this board, C) classifieds, D) tell people about your page.

Add your URL to your sig at the bottom of emails....for example, mine would be something like this:

-- Jason
--
http://www.sportsshooter.com/burfield

Remember, your username is your url. It will never change.

Another suggestion, if you you are only going to update one image on your page, make it the FIRST image. This is what people see when they first come to your page...if it looks like something they have already seen there is no guarantee they are going to stick around and look at the rest of your stuff.

And...patience...we are growing. We have new features we plan to roll out that will only help everyone get additional traffic. It's going to be fun.
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Jeff Snyder, Photographer
Metro DC Region | MD | USA | Posted: 8:53 AM on 07.25.02
->> Hmmmmm My counter is up to 372, as of this morning....Maybe has something to do with the "non" sports images ??

www.sportsshooter.com/jeffsnyder
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 3:36 AM on 07.27.02
->> :
Jason,
About your last suggestion of updating the 1st image if you are only going to update one...

How hard would it be to implement a feature to rearrange the order of the images?

ie: I want to update a single image and place it as my "main image" in the top spot. I'd like to be able to move all the other images down by one spot, bumping #10 off the list. This way I can update a single image, keep my newest at the top and oldest at the bottom, without re-uploading every image into the new spot.

Now that I've written this it seems fairly complicated (it made great sense in my head). What do you think?
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Jason Burfield, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 07.28.02
->> Kevin...

This would not be too extemely hard, however, it would be a non-trivial event. This would need to built in such a way as to allow members to chose whether they want their page to work this way or not...some folks may not want the most recently added photo to be the main image, etc, etc...

However, I will add this to my list of possible things to add in the future...

Thanks.
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Thomas Sapiano, Photographer, Student/Intern
Kleinburg (Toronto) | ON | Canada | Posted: 12:09 AM on 07.29.02
->> One potential way to implement Kevin's idea without changing the opperation would be to allow the user to select the image number that is displayed in the title section of their profile. For example, a small input field in the form lets you set image 3 as that title piece rather than image 1. That way one could replace one of the other images, and then move the title image to it rather than replacing two images. It'd also allow users to change the image they play even if there are no new uploads.
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Jason Burfield, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 12:20 AM on 07.29.02
->> Man...you guys are killing me...

Trust me, there are about a zillion ways to do it. Also trust me, I have probably already examined all of them.

Also trust me on this, all of them would take a decent amount of effort to implement at this moment in time...there are a couple of reason this won't happen in the next few weeks...the first is that I have a wife who is going to be giving birth ANY DAY NOW, which precludes me from starting yet another addition at the moment...PLUS, we have other features we are currently working on that you will appreciate MUCH more than the ability to move image positions around...again, trust me. :)
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Kevin M. Cox, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
San Marcos | TX | US | Posted: 4:25 AM on 07.29.02
->> Thanks for the update Jason, and CONGRATULATIONS! Boy? Girl? Or is it a surprise?

I’m not expecting anything I suggest to get implemented immediately, I’m just throwing ideas around to see what yourself and others think. Once again thanks for all your hard work on the site. I can’t wait to see all these new features we keep hearing about!
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer
Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 07.29.02
->> I have over 400 hits, but I think that may be because of the photo I have on my gallery main. Seems I'm getting referals from message boards on that net that like the image, or should I say the subjects of the image.
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Tommy Metthe, Photographer
Abilene | TX | | Posted: 6:21 PM on 07.29.02
->> I'm at about 225.
Baron, I think that's cheating putting a non-sports shot like that, but nice, uh, composition of that shot, wouldn't change a thing. I bet that was a difficult shoot!
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer
Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 11:35 PM on 07.29.02
->> Actually I put the shot on there b/c I was in a rush and on my way to work and decided to just put something on there I had handy. I've been trying to update the caption info but it appears that one needs to delete the image from the portfolio and upload it again. I'll probably replace it once I get off vacation and back to shooting again.

It was shot with a Nikon CoolPix 990 with a 2x adapter on set. The great thing was that I got to blast away a number of images in total silence as the official location photographer had to slowly shoot images using a Canon A2 in a large, heavy square blimp to supress the noise. And it was a total hassle if he wanted to change lenses as he needed to change ports on the blimp too.
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Tony Donaldson, Photographer
Sherman Oaks | CA | USA | Posted: 11:37 PM on 07.31.02
->> I too find many inspiring images here, thanks guys! I must suck, I've only got 112 hits now - hee hee.

-Tony D
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Matt Hevezi, Photographer
PSC 557 Box 914 | FPO AP | USA | Posted: 12:35 AM on 08.19.02
->> To Thomas and David and anybody else interested in this thread, I wanted to chime in and give some input/opinion related to what you guys were talking about.

First, I think it is awesome to be able to surf this site and sample so many people's work. It is a great education for me.

Second, one of the ways I believe I can grow as a photographer is to study others' work and then go try to emulate their photographs ... not copy ... just emulate. Something like saying to yourself, "Okay, I see this particular photo made by so-and-so photographer, now I'm going to go out and try to use that technique in a similar situation just to see if I can do that too." If you can emulate the technique with success, then I think you have grown a bit as a photographer.

Third, for me, I spend hours and hours looking at new and old photos. Many great shots I come across really stick in my mind. I will find myself out shooting something and I see something that I say to myself, "wow, this photograph I'm seeing in the viewfinder really has the feel of so-and-so's photo of subject XYZ."

For the stock photographers, I can totally understand their need to protect their creative. But once a photo is out there, it will be both copied and emulated. Personally, I wouldn't get any satisfaction copying another's work, especially it involves for profit. But I think emulating somebody's technique -- or even a specific image style/scene is very okay if it is in the name of professional development and visual education.

I'm an active-duty military guy, so I'm lucky that my salary is not directly linked to the photos I produce. Also, I don't really feel qualified to comment much on the Stock photography business. But as a regular Joe shooter without a lot of experience, I depend heavily on what I see in other's work to push me to the next level in photography. I wish I had great natural creative, but I'm just not there yet.

For the seasoned pros out there, would you care to comment on this a little and maybe share some thoughts/experience about how you may or may not have emulated (or possibly copied) other's work when you first began to do photography professionally. And also, if/when you reached the point where you felt like you no longer felt as if you needed to emulate (or possibly copy) other's because you felt that you had developed a keen sense that the thought no longer enters the mind.

I've heard a lot of people talk about studying great paintings to to develop better photo skills. If I go make a photo that feels very similar to a great idea that some guy had when he put the brush to the canvas, would it be questionable to go out and try to duplicate that artists' way of seeing the world in a photograph?

I think this is a great issue to chew around, especially for the younger generation of photogs like myself. I really am interested how this issue impacts or has impacted the careers of some of you old-timers, both in PJ and commercial work???

Thanks in advance for any additional comments offered.
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Myung Chun, Photographer
Chatsworth | CA | USA | Posted: 6:46 PM on 08.19.02
->> Hey Grover, there are no new livestock pictures on your site...I checked :(

http://www.sportsshooter.com/mjchun
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Howard Curtis Smith, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 7:18 PM on 08.19.02
->> Hello everyone,

I only have 234 hits since 6/24. Come on down and visit my site before I develop an inferiority complex. Give me some feedback if you have the time.

Thanks,

Howard Smith
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Robert Dall, Photographer
Yellowknife | NT | Canada | Posted: 8:04 PM on 08.19.02
->> Guys, thanks! I now have 435 hits to my site. 135 in the last week alone. The reason for member pages to have low hits is the just the number of pages on the site. I watched the "who just updated" while giving a tour of the site to a new photog and with in 1/2 an hour all the photog had been replace by new recently updated pages. I would guess that evenings are when pages get updated more fequently but I have also updated my page at midnight MST and by 8:00 the next morning it's already off the front page. It would be interest to find out just how many pages are out their.
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 08.19.02
->> 1010 hits! Wah-hoo!!

All my shameless and blatant self promotion has worked. If only the hit counter on my personal web site (
http://steven.frischling.com) worked, I wonder how many hits it has.
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 1:34 AM on 08.20.02
->> It's Aug. 19, and I'm up to 735 hits. I've updated my portfolio about six times with a wide variety of work (non sports). My page is not linked from any other sites, which means all those hits came from SS.com. Several weeks ago I had an email conversation with a well known SI shooter who has a portfolio on this site and he said he had about four times as many hits as I did at that time. I assume he's keeping up that clip but he hasn't updated that much so maybe his traffic is slowing, I don't know. I'm not really sure how interesting this information is, but the lesson to be learned is that updating your portfolio and contributing to this message board will provoke hits to your site.
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
Albany | CA | USA | Posted: 2:13 AM on 08.20.02
->> Yup.

SportsShooter.com: The more you use it, the more people will see your stuff. Pretty simple.

There are lots of ways to get traffic to your member page... and lots of the people on this site who get a lot of traffic get it from stories they've written (which appear in the archives), and by posting classified ads, posting messages to this board, posting items to 'The Guide', and by sending out emails to their own personal contact email list letting people know about their cool updated SportsShooter.com page...

Here's another tip: A good set of keywords help you show up in more search results.

And now for a totally different question... How many of you are reading the 'bottom bands' - those constantly changing lines of text at the bottom of every page of the site? Just curious.
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Peter Huoppi, Photographer
Colchester | VT | USA | Posted: 10:26 AM on 08.20.02
->> In response to Grover's question about the 'bottom bands,' I have been looking at them and often clicking through on the links. I think they add a terrific personality to the site.
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
Albany | CA | USA | Posted: 9:52 PM on 08.20.02
->> Today's tip on how to get people to check out your member page: Participate in the Equipment Profiles area by leaving your comments about the gear listed in that section.

Check it out:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/gear_index.html
--

Want something added to the list of gear in that section? Let us know by going here:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/contactus.html
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