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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Digital Voice Recorders help.
Matt Brown, Photographer
Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 1:44 PM on 05.17.06
->> Need some help. I looking into Digital Voice Recorders for multimedia work. Can anyone tell me who they like or don't like. I use a MAC and will be getting a mic for the voice recorder.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 2:04 PM on 05.17.06
->> A couple of the recording mags I read have said nice things about the M-Audio MicroTrack:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

It even uses Compact Flas cards. While the MSRP is $499 you can get it from some place like Sweetwater for $399:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 2:08 PM on 05.17.06
->> Hey Matt,

I haven't used one but the M-Audio that Jim suggests has gotten some great reviews. Transom.org has a pretty decent review. I have been using an Olympus DS-2 with an EV 635a microphone. The results have been pretty good. If you scout around Ebay and Amazon you can get a great deal. I got the DS-2 on Amazon for 80 dollars free shipping and the mic on Ebay for 60.
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David Lucas, Photographer
Toronto | On | Canada | Posted: 2:08 PM on 05.17.06
->> Personally i use an Olympus ws200s it is a solid state recorder so no cards or tapes or discs. It holds about 30 hours of audio depending on the quality you set. The audio quality is good and even better with a mic. It was recommended to me at one of the NPPA courses and by Mindy McAdams teacher/author Flash Journalism. It runs about $200cdn and is about the size of a small cell phone so great to just throw in your camera bag.

Cheers
David Lucas
Staff Photographer
Toronto Sun
www.torontosun.com
www.davidlucasphotography.com
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Brent Drinkut, Photographer
Frankfort | IN | USA | Posted: 2:17 PM on 05.17.06
->> Yo Matt.

I second the Olympus ws200s. Its worked fine for me since I picked it up right before heading out to LA. I tried a Sony first and that wouldnt sync up with my mac so took it back and got the Olympus instead. Throw a mic on it and you dont have to spend a lot of money for a pretty good recording.
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Matthew Brown, Photographer
White Plains | NY | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 05.17.06
->> Matt --
Take a look at our site:

http://www.thejournalnews.com/photography/multi_index.htm
or www.LoHud.com
(The first link takes you directly to our multi-media page)

all the stories that our photo staff have produced, audio is captured with an Olympus DM-10 Voice recorder. We bought them through B&H Photo. It's works both on Mac and PC. We have had great sucess with this recorder, and it comes with a mic.

Jim mentions the MicroTrack 2496. This is an excellent recorder from m-audio. With this recorder, you have control over audio levels. You need a mic, there are a lot out thier and if you look at www.Transom.org, you will find a lot of info on mics.
Karen Warren of the Houston Chronicle spent some time visiting our newspaper, learning multi-media. I know upon her return to the Lone Star state, she ordered an Olympus recorder.
If you have other questions, feel free to call or e-mail me.

Matthew
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Lucas Jackson, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 05.17.06
->> I use an Edirol R-1, it kicks ass because it uses a compact flash card to write to (no need to buy any new memory devices) and can record either in MP-3 or Wav. The mp3s work fine to make audio and the only gripe I have ever had is that it is a battery hog. but it has a decent internal mic and level controls so you can do some pretty good audio capturing with it.

Lucas

PS it costs around $400 so it's pricy but I love mine.
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David Honl, Photographer
Istanbul | TR | Turkey | Posted: 3:45 PM on 05.17.06
->> I use the M-Audio MicroTrack- got it at B&H for $399 (with free shipping, I think)

Mounts as a drive, so you just drag and drop files into your sound editor or FTP.
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Guy Rhodes, Photographer
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 05.17.06
->> The M-Audio MicroTrack does not have XLR mic inputs.

If you plan on getting "serious" with your sound recording, this is going to be a major road block right off the bat.

Look for a recorder like the Marantz PMD-670:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&...

It has XLR inputs that will work with most high end mics right off the bat without the need for clumsy XLR adaptors that'll be necessary on the M-Audio model.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:18 AM on 05.18.06
->> "The M-Audio MicroTrack does not have XLR mic inputs"

It does, however, have balanced TRS inputs and you can always get adapter cords. Putting real XLR inputs on the thing would have made it a lot bigger.
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Aaron Vogel, Student/Intern, Photographer
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 7:56 PM on 05.18.06
->> I have the Microtrack as well and I really have to say it's the only way to go if you want professional sounding audio without going for a super high end solid state field recorder ($1000++). It has full control over MP3 compression settings (what bit rate from 320 to 128), it connects very well to any microphone - dynamic, shotgun, lavaliere, etc - thanks to the balanced TRS 1/4" inputs (which Jim mentioned) and it comes with a very nice little mic already that works very well for quick interviews. It's very small so it fits in a bag well. I keep mine in my Think Tank Speed Demon. The menus are VERY easy to understand, unlike the Marantz PMD660. The ONLY problem is that the batteries are internal so you can't just swap them out and keep going. It does however charge off a laptop so if you're doing a VERY long interview (the batteries last anywhere from 3-5 hours of constant use) you can just hook it up and keep going.

A note about "XLR adapters" - that's kind of a misnomer. You need a cable for any external mic you buy. With the PMD660 you get an XLR to XLR cable. With the Microtrack you buy an XLR to 1/4" TRS cable... not an adapter, just a different cable.

Also, the Microtrack can be had for around $350 if you look around online.
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Bill Gaither, Photographer
Galesburg | IL | United States | Posted: 8:07 PM on 05.18.06
->> Haven't read the other's responses yet but one of my co-workers went to a conference recently and according to him, the AP had recommended the Olympus DM-10. I believe the DS-2 is a close runner-up to it but I've seen the DM-10 for about $129-$135 on Amazon and B&H. We're looking to see what programs are needed to download and then apply it to say, SoundSlide, but that's step B and I'll worry about that at the appropriate time. Hope this helped!
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Matt Brown, Photographer
Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 2:23 AM on 05.21.06
->> So what mic do you like with the Olympus ws200s? I really like everything about the M-Audio MicroTrack, just a little high in price for now.
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David Lucas, Photographer
Toronto | On | Canada | Posted: 12:43 PM on 05.21.06
->> Matt,

This is the mic i bought.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007N55K0/ref=pd_cp_e_title/002-6558102-1...

Works very well.

Cheers
David Lucas
Staff Photographer
Toronto Sun
www.torontosun.com
www.davidlucasphotography.com
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Andrew Villa, Student/Intern, Photographer
Dublin | CA | United States | Posted: 1:42 AM on 07.20.06
->> On the M-Audio recorder, how much recording time is everyone geting say with a 1gb CF card?

I either want to get this or the olympus, but can't really make up my mind yet.
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Nhat V. Meyer, Photographer
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:03 AM on 07.20.06
->> We just replaced (in the last two weeks) almost all of our M-Audio recorders with these Edirol Roland recorders which take SD cards:

http://tinyurl.com/cc3uu

Why? Two main reasons (they are roughly the same price $399):
*The Roland takes 5 seconds to turn on versus 15 seconds to turn on the M-Audio.
*interchangeable AA batteries (the M-Audio's built-in rechargeable's don't last more than a day)

The Roland also has it's own built in microphone (m-Audio doesn't) so if you accidently forget a microphone you're not totally hosed.

How much can you record? Depends if you record as a .wav file or an .mp3 file. The .mp3 are compressed files and the .wav's aren't so obviously the .wav's are much larger.

I've always recorded .mp3 to conserve space (faster to download too) and it's doubtful that anyone is going to be able to tell the difference especially since most people will be listening on computer speakers. I've never taken more than 30 minutes of audio and that didn't even get close to filling up a 1 gig card - I think it was 35 megs or something like that.
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Daryl Peveto, Student/Intern, Photographer
Ventura | CA | US | Posted: 3:47 AM on 07.20.06
->> I second what Aaron vogel said. I use both the PMD 660 and the M-Audio. Both are great, but it depends on what you want to record. If your looking for portability, but quality sound, the M-audio is great. It fits in your pocket, and even comes with a dual mic that is actually not bad for ambient recordings. I use this a lot for mulitimedia, interviews on the fly and ambient sounds. It does take some time to boot, so it you have it set to power off, and need to capture something quick you might miss it. The internal battery is also a downer. It has about 4-5 hours of life. The interface on it is much more user friendly than the PMD 660 or 670. Man those things are frustrating. But I use them for regular interviews or voice overs because they are very consistent and reliable. I haven tried the other recorders mentioned, but make sure that whatever you get is going to match your needs. recording to a CF card is a must. It save so much time. Also, look at audio, battery life, level controls (the M-audio is really easy to adjust ehich is nice when recording in stereo), and cost. Good luck.
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
Manchester | NH | USA | Posted: 6:45 AM on 07.20.06
->> Marantz PMD660. Nuff said.
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Allen Lester, Photographer
Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 7:25 AM on 07.20.06
->> All,

Seems many of us are in the hunt for the perfect digital voice recorder. Here is a good review on the M-Audio Microtrack. But, as Aaron noted the battery is an internal proprietary one that requires a trip to the factory to replace.
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/11/30/m-audio-microtrack-review.html

I needed one rather quickly the past weekend to put together a Soundslides piece for a client and ended up with an Olympus DS-2, which got the job done. I was primarily using it to capture ambient sound at a running event on a horse track. The disadvantage to this and other similar Olympus models is that you have little control over input levels. The DS-2 has two modes that control the sensitivity, but that's it. The audio quality is excellent. Here is a review on that particular unit:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/18/ds2.html

Hope this helps,
Allen
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Larry Clark, Photographer, Photo Editor
Falls Church | VA | USA | Posted: 1:27 PM on 07.27.06
->> I recently purchased the Edirol R-09. I had been waiting to make a purchase because both the Marantz PMD-660 and M-Audio had some things mentioned in reviews that I wasn't happy about (noise in the Marantz and lack of honest phantom power with the M-Audio).

I been doing some environmental recording with the R-09 and am very, very impressed. The display is wonderful, the menus are logical, and the quality of the sound has been top notch. It uses normal AA batteries.

The R-09's internal mics are O.K., but are omni-directional and so might not do the job you need. I tried a Nady single-point stereo mic, but it wasn't satisfactory and the particular unit I bought was not balanced (right-to-left). I ended up with a Sony ECM-MS957 single-point (mid/side) mic which allows you some additional control of your soundfield. (I have a Rycote Windjammer sock coming any day now.)

You can see my field recording summary at:
http://www.ljclark.com/audio/audio-01.htm

Oh...If your work ever requires you to record meetings or other such mundane stuff, any of these digitals with built-in stereo mics are really nice. With the R-09 I can record at a fairly compressed MP3 setting, set the audio on auto, and dump the contents to my computer. The thing will record hours and hours on a 2GB SD card. The stereo really helps with clarity...In case you have to transcribe.
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 10:29 PM on 08.17.06
->> Larry, thanks a bunch for your field recording summary! It has some good advice and I appreciate the time you took to post it.
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Andrew Villa, Student/Intern, Photographer
Dublin | CA | United States | Posted: 1:19 AM on 08.18.06
->> I recieved a M-Audio on tuesday and have tried it out a little bit, but still am getting used to it. It seems to be pretty nice aside from the 15 second startup time.
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Ramsay de Give, Student/Intern, Photographer
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 7:14 AM on 08.18.06
->> I second the Edirol R-09. I purchased the M-Audio Microtrak a while back, and just wasn't impressed. Just an idea~
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Larry Clark, Photographer, Photo Editor
Falls Church | VA | USA | Posted: 9:38 PM on 08.20.06
->> I finally put together a proof-of-concept for a long term web-based multimedia project. The Edirol R-09 is key to grabbing the audio portion.

You can take a look at:

http://www.gallery90.com/sotsop/sotsop.htm

Cheers,
Larry
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Bob Carey, Photographer
Boiling Springs | NC | United States | Posted: 2:39 PM on 08.25.06
->> I will also reccommend the Edirol R-09. I just purchased several from Jody at Roberts for my students to use for audio collection (he's a good price on them). We had purchased a Marantz 660, but it is so much bigger than the R-09. The menus are easy to follow and you can be up and recording quickly.

I used it recently and was impressed. I even put it in my credential holder to capture some nat sound while I shot. I'm looking forward to using it on a couple of upcoming projects and my students are standing in line waiting to use it.

Bob
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 08.25.06
->> the olympus ws200s is what we use...almost all the photogs have them with external mics. it is extremely simple to use unlike the old mini discs we had. hit record and it records. pull it apart stick it into the usb port and viola there are your recordings. sweet. we also have a big tank of a marantz recorder that uses flash cards but the olympus is much smaller and simpler to use....plus cheaper.
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 12:39 PM on 09.01.06
->> Well you guys have got me interested in this concept.

So I am thinking about the Olympus DM-10 and the Edirol R-09. I really want to avoid an external mic. I do want high quality but do I really need the Edirol? I will spend the money for it if I need to, but this is somewhat of an experment for me.

Can you help me out? Any suggestions?

Thanks!
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Jonathan Castner, Photographer
Longmont | CO | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 09.01.06
->> I'll say that the biggest improvement in your sound quality, regardless of the recording unit, will be the mic. Internal mic's are crap. Even a simple Sony MS907 will make a huge difference in the clarity of your sound.
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Roland Simmons, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 2:08 PM on 09.01.06
->> The DM-10 is a good recorder. I got mine on ebay for $50. I also purchased the Sony mic that Jonathan mentioned. I'm happy with both.

Nhat Meyer used a Sony ECM-MS907 for his Barry Bonds slideshows.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1603
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John Taggart, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 10:10 PM on 09.01.06
->> www.turntablelab.com is also a great place in NYC and they know their gear.

-jmt
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John Taggart, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 10:15 PM on 09.01.06
->> if your recorder fails and you have no way of getting audio one thing that i did was called my voicemail at the office from my cellphone and recorded it that way.

just make sure you have a speaker phone at work so when you go back to record it you will be set. also you might have to do it a few times to get it right, i watched KYW newsradio do it this way several times.
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Paul W Gillespie, Photographer
Annapolis | MD | USA | Posted: 10:48 PM on 09.01.06
->> What is better the Olympus DM10 or the olympus ws200s? What are the main differences?

Paul
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Andrew Nenque, Photographer
Beaumont | TX | USA | Posted: 10:51 PM on 09.01.06
->> Here is what I am using.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&...

Don't lose that wind screen because it's expensive to replace. Good luck on your next multimedia.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&...


Here are some examples I recently did.
http://www.nenque.com/photojournalism/stories/aquatic_therapy/

http://www.nenque.com/dust
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Roland Simmons, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 2:56 AM on 09.02.06
->> Paul,

One thing I can't do with the DM-10 is use headphones at the same time as a mic. It only has one input so it's a earphone/mic input.
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Larry Clark, Photographer, Photo Editor
Falls Church | VA | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 09.02.06
->> One of the things you pay "extra" for is removable media and non-proprietary data formats. If you want to plug the media into just about anyone's card reader, then SD or CF recorders get you there. Likewise the ability to play and/or edit a file with decent software may point you towards WAV and MP3 formats.

The importance of clean, quality audio is sometimes understated. Whatever you record on, you might want to ensure that the software will allow you some kind of graphic or parametric equalization, fades in and out, cross fading for editing clips, full file or selected segment volume adjustment, etc.

Proprietary audio software should be able to export into a common format. (I'm not sure that Sony's Soundforge, which is very capable software, will even import the DFV format from Sony's own digital recorders.) Converting a compressed audio format into another format is kind like going from JPEG at one resolution to TIFF at another -- and then back to JPEG.

All that being said, a decent mic (at least a couple people in this thread recommend Sony's low cost mid/side single point stereo mic) feeding a digital recorder with lossy proprietary audio compression will still sound a heck of a lot better than the same recorder with an internal mic.

If you approach digital audio the same way as digital photo, you will see parallels. Lens & mic. Highly compressed JPEG & highly compressed audio. Digital photo formats & digital audio formats (proprietary vs. universal, etc.). Widely used editing software vs. proprietary software.
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Ramsay de Give, Student/Intern, Photographer
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 10:43 AM on 09.09.06
->> Hey Mr. Nenque... Man, nice piece on the aquatic therapy. I've changed my point of view on this whole topic -- no more worrying about equipment and technique...

Basically, everyone should feel free to focus on creating "any and all" types of multimedia pieces. They are so powerful, and literally speaking -- they are the "wave of the future." Run with your instincts, as it’s such a new type of media (you can’t go wrong!!!) I really appreciate the SportsShooter message boards, as they get your thoughts stirring. There's a wealth of information around every corner. Thanks ya'll.

--R

Inspirations everywhere -- keep your photographic eye open.
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 10:29 AM on 09.10.06
->> Soundslides appears to be the program of choice. However do any of you have other preferences and why? Examples?

Thanks!
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 7:37 AM on 09.11.06
->> Ian, David Brooks suggested Showit a couple weeks ago:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=21517

It looks pretty similar to Soundslides but it has a zoom and pan function... there are some cool examples on their web page at:
http://tinyurl.com/z5o7h

Curtis
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Wes Hope, Photographer
Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:44 AM on 09.11.06
->> What about this Sony:

http://tinyurl.com/z2q4l

Recorder with a built in camera... who needs the D2Xs/1Ds MkII?
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 5:24 PM on 09.11.06
->> My Edirol R-09 just arrived and for those of you that use the ThinkTank belt system, it fits perfectly into the front pocket of the "All The Other Stuff" add on. And that also fits on a regular belt.
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