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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Incredible horse racing photo by AP's Charles Bauer
Neal Vaughan, Photographer
St. Joseph | MI | usa | Posted: 10:52 PM on 04.20.06
->> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060421/483/kycb10204210217


Wow! And it was taken while panning too!

Nice job! (and poor horse!)
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Chris Large, Photographer
Okotoks | Alberta | Canada | Posted: 11:14 PM on 04.20.06
->> I don't see what's great about seeing a horse getting killed

Chris
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Chris Large, Photographer
Okotoks | Alberta | Canada | Posted: 11:23 PM on 04.20.06
->> Important photos have a purpose......

I really don't think we are talking about a picture that raises our awareness of the stark realities of war, or shows starving children in Africa, or suffering the of HIV victims.

Pictures that serve a purpose...to educate, to increase awareness, to enlighten......these are all good...but seeing a race horse crash.......what does that prove unless we want to rally against cruelity to animals .....which I don't think was the idea of the orginal post.
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
Kokomo | IN | United States | Posted: 11:34 PM on 04.20.06
->> Chris, the job of a photojournalist is to report the news, as you see it, visually.
Serving a purpose, educating, increasing awareness, and etc. are all byproducts of the primary mission of reporting the news visually. A journalist should not have an "agenda" or higher purpose, they're job is to tell it like it is and let the facts speak for themselves which the picture that offends you clearly does.
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 12:07 AM on 04.21.06
->> Could be the size, but honestly... I don't think it's that great of a photo. I mean, I click on links that are posted here of great shots... shots that really move me. This one didn't.
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Seh Suan Ngoh, Photographer
Singapore | SG | Singapore | Posted: 1:07 AM on 04.21.06
->> The only difference is that the photographer shot *after* the finish line, which not all photographers would do. Then again, it brings me to wonder, why would human beings want to put money down and gamble on the lives of big animals and men.
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Max Gersh, Student/Intern
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 1:41 AM on 04.21.06
->> I agree with a little bit of what everyone has to say on this post. First off, I think what makes this photograph so impactful is that for one, the photographer was shooting after the race was complete. Also, this horse won the race and then died on the track. Similar to if the MVP of a sporting event had a heart attack on the court. Chris, almost no one ever likes seeing anything die. As Michael said, it is part of news. There are six categories when something is being considered for news: timeliness, proximity, prominance, conflict, novelty, and impact. I would say that this fits AT LEAST 4 or 5 of those categories which makes it news. Our job as a journalist doesn't allow for us to pick what makes a great story. Stories happen and we cover them. Our job as journalist is to inform the public so they can make an educated decision. That leads to to what Seh Suan Ngoh said. "Why would human beings want to put money down and gamble on the lives of big animals and men." How would you be able to form that thought/opinion if stories like these weren't covered?

-Max-
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Tucson | Az | USA | Posted: 2:16 AM on 04.21.06
->> A photojournalists' job is to capture the events in front of him/her without bias. Shoot first, ask questions later. That photo isn't the greatest, but it does educate by telling a story - it does tell what happened - a horse fell. It does bring awareness - horse racing can be dangerous for the jockeys and deadly for a horse who falls. There was no cruelty to that horse. Cruelty would have been not putting it down and letting it suffer. Anyone who can't see that needs to go back to journalism school.
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Neal Vaughan, Photographer
St. Joseph | MI | usa | Posted: 2:56 AM on 04.21.06
->> " The only difference is that the photographer shot *after* the finish line, which not all photographers would do. "

That's what caught my eye as well.

Nice post Max, couldn't have said it better.
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Michael Myers, Photographer, Student/Intern
Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 7:07 AM on 04.21.06
->> My first reaction on seeing the photo was "yikes!"

My reaction on reading that the jockey was injured and the horse died wasn't so positive.

That the horse won the race, and then died, isn't like the horse being a "vip" or anything - I doubt that the horse had any idea of what "winning" means.

If the photo was of a person falling off a building, just before he hit the ground and was killed, would the photo have been published?



Way too many mixed up reactions right now to say how I feel, but I'd rather not see photos of people or animals just before they die. That's personal. Others I'm sure feel differently.
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Gary Clark, Photographer
Mill Spring | NC | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 04.21.06
->> Chris, your photos of the dogs are great! but what is in the dog food that they eat. Dog food has horse meet in it too. So think before you speak because that horse could be in that next can of dog food that you feed your dogs!
Great photo Neal!
Gary
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Chris Large, Photographer
Okotoks | Alberta | Canada | Posted: 9:37 AM on 04.21.06
->> Gary I thought lots before I spoke. You miss the point of my post. Dog food from horse meat has got nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm not on an animal rights agenda, I'm not against photojournalism and the duty to report news. I just don't think this picture says anything important, I don't think it is newsworthy either....it's just a typical crash and burn.

Just my humble opinion

Chris
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
Kokomo | IN | United States | Posted: 10:03 AM on 04.21.06
->> But Chris, what must a picture say other than it's contents? You're still stuck on this idea that there has to be an additional component to complete the photo. We all can argue the quality of the photo but the fact is, it's newsworthy just as an auto racing crash would be. It's a legitimate moment captured surrounding the horse race which has considerable public interest.
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 04.21.06
->> Chris,

The same criticism could be leveled at your "run of the mill" car accident photo or photo of a house fire.

Quite frankly, I think it's certainly newsworthy when a rider is injured and required hospitalization and a horse had to be put down in as a result of the accident. I also think that if you're of the opinion that this sort of activity doesn't represent a "humane" use of horses, then this emotional photo might be considered helpful to your cause.

There have been any number of photos published of people falling towards death, or great injury. Two such photos have been awarded Pulitzers over the years. In addition, another board member is in a legal tussle over photos of a player mortally stricken on a practice field. So I'm not sure charges could be leveled as to there being a "double standard" here: animal vs. human.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 11:33 AM on 04.21.06
->> Wow
I'm really surprised at the track this thread took. When I saw the photo I didn't have any idea anyone would see it as anything other than a shooter doing a really good job of catching a significant moment. Not an easy accomplishment and definitely a kudos earner.
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:00 PM on 04.21.06
->> I have to totally disagree with Chris. You missed the point of the post.
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Gary Payne, Photographer
Denton | TX | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 04.21.06
->> I have to agree with David Harpe many of you did miss the point of the post and the photographer did a great job following the action to the end of the event. I thought it was a good photo of peak action.

When I first saw this picture I thought damn thats kind of funny and bad. So I read the caption and thought damn it was even worse than I thought. The rider got hurt and an animal died. It kind of humbled me and made me stop and think. It was also sad that the horse had to be euthanized. The picture diffently shows the dangers in horse racing.

So I appreciate Chris's opinion but respectfully disagree with him on the impact the photo makes.
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
Gainesville | FL | | Posted: 12:26 PM on 04.21.06
->> It's a good and unusual news photo. The rest is in the eye of the beholder.
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Joshua Corsa, Photographer
Kill Devil Hills | NC | USA | Posted: 1:29 PM on 04.21.06
->> In response to Michael Myers' post of...

"If the photo was of a person falling off a building, just before he hit the ground and was killed, would the photo have been published?"

I can think of at least two or three Pulitzer Prize winning photographs of people either about to, or in the process of, dying. These include Edward Adams' 1969 "Saigon Execution," Stanley Forman's 1976 photo of fire victims, one of whom fell to her death, and Arnold Hardy's photo of another woman falling to her death in 1947. Just some additional food for thought...
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Chris Large, Photographer
Okotoks | Alberta | Canada | Posted: 1:41 PM on 04.21.06
->> My very last post on this

Glad I caused some interest and discusions.....sorta one of the purposes of this site. I'm not a PJ and I respect the opinions of people that shoot this kind of thing for a living and the need to document news. I agree...its in the eye of the beholder.



Thats all from me... I gotta get back to work.
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 4:15 PM on 04.21.06
->> "That the horse won the race, and then died, isn't like the horse being a "vip" or anything - I doubt that the horse had any idea of what "winning" means."

From what I've seen and experienced, horses have a good sense of competition and of being in the lead. We had horses growing up, and I spend a lot of time with horses now because of what I shoot, and it's real common for people to underestimate how smart they are and what they understand. A horse that wins a race, or in my world, throws a rider, knows it's won - you'll see it in how they hold their head and tail and how they trot. They're pretty satisfied with themselves.

I feel bad for the jockey, the horse's owner, and for all those who worked with the horse, because they all feel a deep loss when this happens. The horse isn't an animal to them, it's a team-mate.
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Lucas Jackson, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 6:33 PM on 04.21.06
->> Apparently it was newsworthy:

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=473963&category=Sports&B...

http://news.google.com/?ncl=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/scorecard/othernews.asp%3FarticleID%3D105526&hl=en
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David Stephenson, Photographer
Lexington | Ky | USA | Posted: 9:49 PM on 04.21.06
->> Just to clear things up a bit - Charles Bauer is not an AP staffer. I'm told he was there shooting stock and offered up the photos to AP. (That may explain why he was shooting when and where he was.) And like many things, what's news to some may not be to others. This is certainly huge news to those who cover, follow and watch thoroughbred racing, especially this close to the Kentucky Derby.
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James Clark, Photographer, Assistant
Melbourne | FL | USA | Posted: 11:27 PM on 04.22.06
->> David has hit on the main point. This is very important news. Remember this is a sports photography site not a photojournalism site. They often are one and the same but we all know the difference.

Now about this fall. This is very important as David says with the Kentucky Derby so close. This is not some average jockey we are talking about. This is two time Eclipse Award winner John Velazquez. He is one of the top five jockeys in the world if not the best. With him not able to ride in the Derby will be a critical factor in the outcome of the race.

This is equal to a news report that Tiger Woods was beaned by a golf ball and received a concussion a week prior to the Masters. Tiger might play or not and if he did his game may be off. So, for a photographer catching a deciding moment to the outcome of the Kentucky Derby before the race is noteworthy.
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Thread Title: Incredible horse racing photo by AP's Charles Bauer
Thread Started By: Neal Vaughan
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