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Canon Vs Nikon Flash TTL & Lens
Amir Gamzu, Photographer
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 02.27.06 |
->> Ok, I’m not trying to start up any kind of war here. I have my own opinion about what cameras do what better. But what I want to know about is flash and lens quality. For the longest time I have heard that Nikons Flash systems and Lenses are better. Is this outdated information? Is it still true? Does anyone know??
Please, keep comments to the two systems mentioned, Flash and Lens
on the lens part, yes I know that Canon focuses faster, but I keep hearing that Nikon glass has better coatings
Please, keep comments to the two systems mentioned, Flash and Lens
on the lens part, yes I know that Canon focuses faster, but I keep hearing that Nikon glass has better coatings |
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Jordan Verlage, Photographer
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 5:08 PM on 02.27.06 |
| ->> Well, Canon has ETTL and ETTL II. The 550EX in the Canon line is not compatable with ETTL II, and from my own experience can be a little bit of a crapshoot in many cases as to what you get. Haven't tried the 580EX yet, but I have heard it is an improvement. |
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Andrew Mo, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 5:21 PM on 02.27.06 |
->> One interesting thing about the current nikon iTTL flash technology is the CLS "Creative Lighting System". This lets you control the exposure of remote slave flashes using iTTL from the camera.
Even the more modest bodies like the D70 or D200 can be used as "commanders" for this system with their built-in pop-up flashes, while you need a hotshoe flash to do this with a D2H or D2X.
Joe McNally has a Nikon DVD called "The Speed of Light" detailing some of the ways he's used this system, and Dave Black also shares some of his experiences with this on his website.
From what I understand, Canon has similar functionality with their E-TTL II flash system, but none of their bodies, even the 20D or 20DmkIIn/30D can do this using their pop-up flashes. With the Canon system, you need at least two flashes and an E-TTL II body, while with the Nikons the minimum you need is one flash and an iTTL body.
Cheers,
Andrew |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 5:29 PM on 02.27.06 |
->> "The 550EX in the Canon line is not compatable with ETTL II"
Why do people say that? eTTL and eTTL 2 have nothing to do with the flash. eTTl/eTTL2 are internal to the camera body only and are determined by the flash metering software in the body.
My 20D supports eTTL and eTTL2 with the three 550ex flashes I have, and the 1D only supports eTTL.
The eTTL handles reflections differently than eTTL2 - whether it's better is determined by the situation. There are times I switch eTTL2 off, or use the 1D because I want the reflections to play more of a part in the overall exposure determination.
Ok, back to Amir's questions...
Nikon used to have an advantage with flash exposure in the film/TTL days because they incorporated the distance information available from the lens into the overall flash-power calculation, where Canon just let it fly and hoped the TTL would catch it.
That advantage seems to have disappeared now. My D1x with SB-28DX flashes didn't do any better with night exposures than my 1D/20D with 550ex flashes.
I get similar results with both; There are times Nikon and Canon get fooled, just as in daylight shooting and you have to be familiar with those times to know when to override and take control.
The only time I saw my Canon bodies vary from the Nikon was when using my Quantum X2D strobe head in digital-TTL mode. The flash was a lot more noticable with the D1x whereas it's just a tiny blip with the 1D in indentical situations and exposure settings. It might be attributed to a difference in the Nikon module vs. the Canon module that Quantum uses, though I doubt it. I lean towards the preflash intensity being more noticable on the Nikon... though... remembering back... the Canon preflash was pretty noticable during some slow-speed replays on a big scoreboard last year. I could tell when I fired because of the preflash, vs when a friend used his Norman system in pure manual/TTL mode. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 8:33 PM on 02.27.06 |
->> Within the past year I have shot with Canon Mark 2 and the 580, and the Nikon D2x and the SB-800. Hands down Nikon has the better flash system.
I think Canon has the edge in high iso noise.
Focusing speed with both bodies and the 400/2.8 was about the same - at least in my unscientific tests. Maybe an edge to Canon. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:04 AM on 02.28.06 |
->> "The 550EX in the Canon line is not compatable with ETTL II"
It is on my new 5Ds. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 2:07 AM on 02.28.06 |
->> "With the Canon system, you need at least two flashes and an E-TTL II body, while with the Nikons the minimum you need is one flash and an iTTL body"
Unh-uh. On the Canon, eTTL/eTTL2 is not the determining factor for using their wireless strobe, it's just the flashes. I can use the 1D, which has eTTL and two or more 550ex or 580ex, or a ST-E2 and one of those flashes.
Nikon has a minor advantage with their built-in iTTL capable pop-up flash on their consumer bodies, but that won't last long, if it still exists; Canon might have already shipped that capability in the 5D or the coming 30D - I haven't been paying attention since I've got that already with the 550ex flashes. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 2:19 AM on 02.28.06 |
->> Regarding lens coating...
I don't think there's an appreciable difference between the coatings. Both are very good. There's going to be minor color differences due to the trace minerals in the glass itself though. Which is better? Neither or both.
I think my 70-200f2.8L USM lens has a bit more "snap" to the focus in the center of the image than my equivalent Nikon lens, but then again, the Nikon seemed to have better sharpness of the image on the edges shooting wide open.
Once you've spent the money for pro-quality glass on either system you've got excellent glass. If the glass is holding you back or causing you to lose jobs then I'd say it's time to step up to medium or large format and some Zeiss or Schneider optics. |
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Francis Specker, Photographer
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Riverside | CA | USA | Posted: 2:53 AM on 02.28.06 |
->> I have used various combos of the Canon system for the last 15 years.
The one thing I notice is that the newer Canon stuff is getting better with flash. I have a Canon Mk II and a 20D with a 550EX and 580 EX flashes. The best combo by far is the newer 20D with 580 flash. It shouldn't matter because the MKII and 20D both have ettl-2 algorithms but the 20D is just better.
The 550EX doesn't perform as well on the 20D. I have a hunch that Canon tweaked the ettl-2 algorithm in the newer cameras like the 5D and MKIIn's. Newer lenses send the distance information to the camera is another thing which has helped the Canon flash system.
I also think Nikon flash may have gotten the reputation of being better with flash because they used an external sensor in the first digital compatible flashes, which in truth weren't fully ttl(through the lens). They avoided the problem of trying to read off a shiny digital sensor that made flash ttl really difficult.
Its hard to compare lenses in general because Nikon has standarized all their cameras with a 1.5x crop factor whereas Canon has three different chip sizes that lenses have to cover. Most lenses are sharp in the middle, the corners are where they fall apart.
I think you should stick with whatever system you comfortable with. I see a lot of photographers pick a system based on an aspect of the system that is their core business. For some that is a great flash system like Nikon's, a certain lens like Canon's 200mm f1.8 or Nikon's 200-400mm, or maybe high burst rate or low noise at high ISO's. I remember 20 years ago people bought Nikon FM2's because you could sync at 1/250th a second. |
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Allen Lester, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 11:44 AM on 02.28.06 |
->> Amir,
Not to get side tracked and hijack your thread, but I would like to reiterate the comments that Francis posted. The MKII seems to work best with a 550 and the 20D works best with the 580.
Allen |
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 02.28.06 |
->> Amir:
I have done extensive test comparing the two systems. I did this because in one of the classes we have at Brooks Institute of Photography we do a lot with teach light and light output.
I have to say up front that nothing in the industry right now can compare to the NIKON TTL speedlight system. In terms of consistancy, reliability, and light quality NIKON's system in the leader.
The fact that the SB 800 system can be used collectively together as a multi light system that can be controlled from the camera position is unparrallelled in the market place.
The fact that the consistant output of the SB 800 can be counted on from any distance to subject as well as under any light situation situation in a fill light capacity is also unrivalled in the current market place.
In side by side tests with the NIKON D2X with the SB800 system and the Canon MarkII with the 580EX system the NIKON system outperformed the Canon system every time.
The consistancy of exposure with the NIKON system beat the Canon system by better than 50%.
The NIKON system would accurately adjust it's light output all the way through the scale of -3 stops to +1 stop 92% or 92 out of 100 shots.
The Canon system would only perform this same output consistancy throughout this scale of -3 stops to +1 stops 41% or 41 out of 100 shots. Most of the time the Canon System was either heavily overexposed or extremely underexposed and it was difficult to establish any pattern to the differencial.
After doing these extensive tests it's clear to me that the NIKON lighting system is the best in the industry. What they have done with the slave integration between the SB 800 lights sets it apart in a way that is beyond compare. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 02.28.06 |
| ->> While not as scientific as Rick's testing, I know that I can count on the Nikon flash system to produce consistent and accurate results on my shoots. There glass has always been top notch. |
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Michael Chansley, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Oxnard | CA | USA | Posted: 11:39 PM on 02.28.06 |
| ->> I have performed the same tests Rick Rickman is talking about when I was learning about light at Brooks. I used the Canon 550EX flash with my 10D I had at the time and I had problems with any kind of consistancy. I had no problems when using Nikon gear to perform the same tests. I have to give Nikon props for having good flashes, but I'm still a Canon user all the way. |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Washington DC & Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:02 AM on 03.01.06 |
->> Amir,
When I switched over to Canon 5 years ago (after shooting with Nikon for over 23 years) Canon Rep Bob Malish took the time to explain to me the differences in how Canon's flash technology differed from Nikon's. I had to rethink the way I looked at a scene to get the desired results I was envisioning.
With 1D's and 550's I had no problems once I got the differences into my head. Now with MKII's and 580's the E-TTL II is a bit different with many lenses linking distance calculations to the flash but it is still the same major Canon flash philosophy.
What I do like in the Canon's over the previous Nikon's is that I can create studio and large set lighting effects easier and with more reliability with the Canon system.
Whichever system you use the best thing is to really study and learn its operation, the how and why of each "mode" for your best results. |
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Amir Gamzu, Photographer
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 9:34 AM on 03.01.06 |
->> Thanks everyone for the input!
Randy,
Can you please explain what you mean by "I can create studio and large set lighting effects easier and with more reliability with the Canon system."
thanks
amir |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Washington DC & Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 03.01.06 |
->> Sure...
When I changed over I was able to carry 550's on assignments or to locations (some of the times) that previously warranted me taking larger flash systems and more importantly getting the same results.
Just a few scenarios were; Using the ST-E2 for quick shoots with ratioed lighting with 1-2...or 10 units in each of the two groups. Or putting one flash on camera and ratio(ing) two or three groups. Or using the manual mode, putting strobes at all ratios (power settings) everywhere for mains, fills, kickers, highlights, backgrounds, etc. The combinations are not endless but it makes life easier when I can use (again not always) the Canon system and not take trunks of lighting and grip equipment. Call my office if you need more detail.
As I mentioned above "When I changed over" I was not able to consider these options with the Nikon system. I'd imagine the new 800's though can now do the same. |
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