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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Your big break
Johnny Vy, Photographer
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San Gabriel | CA | USA | Posted: 9:22 PM on 01.08.06 |
| ->> Hi everybody, I am having a hard time getting call backs and consideration for some photo jobs that I have been persistent trying to get. The main response that I am getting as far as looking into internships is that they are for students only. Since I just graduated a few months ago, I am no longer a student, and am having some trouble getting into these types of programs. Luckily for me though, I'll be going to SSA II in April. For all you contract photographers, or photojournalists, I'm wondering, hw did you get your big break? |
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David Lucas, Photographer
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Toronto | On | Canada | Posted: 10:33 PM on 01.08.06 |
->> Johnny,
I finished up photoj school and did an internship with the Canadian Press(Canada's AP) in Ottawa. It was supposed to last 3 weeks...i ended up staying 6 months. At the 6 month mark i got a call from the head of Canadian Press Pictures offering my a chance at a photo editor position. I took it and 8 years later i'm a staff photojournalist at the Toronto Sun.
What kind of jobs are you looking for? Newspaper, Magazine, Commercial? If you let us know we might be able to offer advice for the specific type.
Cheers
David Lucas
Staff Photographer
Toronto Sun
http://www.torontosun.com
http://www.davidlucasphotography.com |
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Brad Penner, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:56 PM on 01.08.06 |
->> Pure luck.
After three years (I transferred in) at RIT the only job I could land was as a yearabook photographer. (At least I was shooting candids and not those cheesy yearbook portraits.) I had to wear a freakin tie! Even when I was shooting football! But at halftime at one of the games I was shooting, I ran into an editor/photographer at the paper I'm at now who very coincidentally had an immediate opening for a photographer. Three weeks later I shot my first job for the Asbury Park Press. That was over four years ago, and I'm still at it.
-b. |
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Johnny Vy, Photographer
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San Gabriel | CA | USA | Posted: 3:45 AM on 01.09.06 |
| ->> Newspaper, Magazine, Commercial. . .that's a good question. I imagine most of these jobs come from good networking, and knowing the right people, or marketing yourself correctly. Would you mind giving tips for each? Recently, I've contacted a bunch of photo editors and such at some local newspapers, and some wire services, but haven't yet tried anything in the magazine realm. I'm sure it takes persistence, and maybe a little nagging, but I'm not getting much feedback from anybody. When I look at other members' profiles, a lot of you, it seems, started off as interns somewhere. I am just wondering, how do you get consideration as an intern if you're no longer a student? |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 5:48 AM on 01.09.06 |
->> Johnny,
I'm going to be hard and to the point:
Don't ever nag someone unless you have the skills to back up your work.
The main reason you are not getting work is because you have not focused on your craft, plain and simple. I see through your website that you know how to make correct exposures, but photography is more than that.
Photography is about finding moments, not celebrities at car shows, as you have posted on your "Photo Journalism" page on your website. "Photojournalism" is one word, not two, by the way.
You need to dig deeper. Good assignments don't come with press releases. You need to ask yourself 'what makes my community unique' and set out to really capture it the way no one else would.
I know that somewhere and someplace you've asked yourself philosophical questions about aspects of life. That's where you need to be with your camera. Don't be affraid to expose your true curiosity through your craft.
Once you do that, nag the Hell out of whoever you want.
Chris Curry |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:34 AM on 01.09.06 |
->> My first big break was getting an internship. Up until then I worked every summer after high school and into college as a janitor.
Then I worked my butt off.
Upon graduating, I asked the help of my boss from my internship to work the industry by passing along any job openings he heard were happening.
Then I put out countless resumés that included a sample of my work (8x10 print with three rows of four images each - like a contact sheet, but slicker).
I mailed them all over the country to newspapers advertising for positions, and to papers that I dreamed of working. I got a lot of calls from photo diredtors who didn't have an opening but were impressed with the samples. I asked their help of tracking down leads in their area of the country.
In the end of 3 months I had a job 2500 miles from home.
Good luck! |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 8:57 AM on 01.09.06 |
->> Johnny Vy:
First most people need to understand there are some legal issues surrounding internships. One must be enrolled in school to take advantage of the internships or the company you work for must consider you an employee. This changes a great deal of the responsibilities of the employer.
This is why it is very important for students to make the most of their college years by applying for internships while they are students and not putting this off till they finish their course work.
Very few ever get a “big break.” Most in this industry probably started somewhere which required them to live at home with their parents or some other place since the pay is pretty poor for the entry level positions.
I believe I sense a tone in your comments of I am ready now just hire me. I would suggest a different approach. I am new and would like the opportunity to work with you and learn from you. You will never stop learning and there is always more to learn than you can ever imagine.
Besides the technical knowledge we need to know about the aesthetics and how composition communicates. If we master these areas we are still in need of many more aspects like the business side of the industry. What I consider the biggest aspect of all is our interpersonal skills when it comes to relationships.
We must develop the skills to communicate with a very diverse group of people and do so in a way to be able to get to the truth about situations and people as best one can do if you are to tell the story as a photojournalist must do.
If you have read this far you may see what I think is the most important way to get hired—relationship focused. People hire people first and foremost based on if personality. They may have people who have the skill to do a job, but they consider in some way undesirable. They will hire a person with less skill and train them to hire someone whose personality is lacking in their view.
Have a career plan. It is similar to a business plan. Decide where you want to be ultimately and then go and interview and meet those where you want to be. Talk to them in person and develop a friendship. Ask them for their guidance. Show them your work and ask them what are the missing links or things which need to change. Ask them about coming back in 6 months and do so. Go back and show them you listened and let them see your attempts to improve. Then ask them what needs to improve and do this over and over.
Send them CDs and ask for feedback in between. But always make the effort to go in person and develop the relationship. In time if you do this and truly listen you will attain your goal.
I have only seen a handful of people with this type of persistence in my life. All of them seemed to have a “big break” early in their career. |
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Joshua Brown, Photographer
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Clyde | NC | USA | Posted: 9:20 AM on 01.09.06 |
| ->> I would like to somewhat-echo what Stanley said. Talk to people in your area (or outside your area). Ask them to meet with you, but not for job purposes. Ask them for an informational interview or something similar. Talk the the photographer/editor about what they do, the day-to-day tasks of their job, maybe follow around a photog for a couple of days. (Driving around in a car can get boring. Most photogs would enjoy some company.) Basically, show interest. Most people will want to see your work if they know you're interested-in their own time. Maybe they'll need a good free-lancer. Maybe they'll have an opening soon. Maybe they'll hear of one somewhere else in the company. The most important thing after you get your foot in the door is to keep the contact, but not to treat them as a contact. Treat them as a mentor or teacher, someone who has proven that they are willing to help you provided you show that you are willing to learn, regardless of whether or not it directly leads to a job. |
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Paul W Gillespie, Photographer
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Annapolis | MD | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 01.09.06 |
->> I took a Photography 1 class at the local community college. The professor was an adjunct teacher who was a full time commercial photographer. After the class was over I stopped by his studio one day and asked if he need an assistant. He said yes and hired me, it did not hurt that he gave me an A+ in class and shared the same camera system.
A couple years later he took a job as a Photo Editor at a group of weekly papers. After 3 months he hated it and was going to quit. The next shooter in line behind him would be the PE and they were going to hire another shooter with my bosses input. He was still PE until the new hire. I freelanced for them for a month and then got my first staff job.
The rest is history.
So I guess my big break was meeting my photo mentor and constantly developing relationships with people at papers that could help me move up the ladder. |
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Mark Bolton, Photographer
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Gilmanton Iron Works | NH | USA | Posted: 11:41 AM on 01.09.06 |
->> Many years ago, back in '91, I landed my first full-time staff position at The Citizen newspaper in Laconia, NH. A fellow grad from college who was working for NH AP called me to alert me of the Laconia position. Networking. That's key, I feel. Walking in the interview, I had to have a solid portfolio that backed me up as well.
After my college grad. in '89 and living at home, I kept shooting on my own; shot some freelance for a weekly paper, and was ready w/ the portfolio to apply to Laconia.
My advice-- keep shooting, make connections, be ready w/ the portfolio, knock on doors.
Good luck! |
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Johnny Vy, Photographer
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San Gabriel | CA | USA | Posted: 3:09 PM on 01.09.06 |
| ->> Thanks guys, this is truly an informative post. |
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
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Palm Desert | CA | USA | Posted: 3:33 AM on 01.10.06 |
->> Stanley said some really good things. He's right on target.
To emphasize what worked for me: relationships and the desire to learn and do good work.
I was in high school. My photo teacher asked me to join the yearbook staff. After shooting hundreds of assignments for the yearbook, he recommended me to the local paper who was looking for a part-time photographer to round out the staff of 1, full-time shooter. While attending junior college, I worked part-time at the local paper in my home town. I made $5.45 per hour and the paper was under 10k. I made many friends at this paper. I left the paper to finish my education at a four-year institution. The local paper was eventually bought and merged with another paper in my area. After I graduated from college, a friend who worked at my old paper told me about a photog opening at the newly merged paper. I applied and got the job. The job didn't pay much, but it got my foot in the door.
Good relationships have also helped me get my last two jobs. (Hopefully the skills that I have tried to accumulate along the way have helped too.)
Developing relationships landed me in this business. |
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David Griffin, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 10:42 PM on 01.10.06 |
| ->> In our field (NASCAR), it is about who you know. I snuck into tracks for years taking pictures and building a portfolio. It was then when I showed it to someone in the "pool of NASCAR shooters" that he was able to put it in front of someone that knew someone looking for a shooter. It was just a bit of "pure dumb luck." I always believe that is 75% of the equation. It is EXTREMELY hard to break into our niche now. |
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Kyle Carter, Photographer
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Meridian | MS | USA | Posted: 11:26 PM on 01.10.06 |
| ->> Have someone in your town arrested for a 40 year-old Civil Rights murder case and be the only freelance photographer there on the first day - that's all it takes - atleast for me.....that and have a big mouth!! KC |
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andrew wilz, Photographer
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Aspen | CO | usa | Posted: 12:18 AM on 01.11.06 |
| ->> .....ummmm......i think i'm still waiting........... |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 12:43 AM on 01.11.06 |
| ->> I was 15 and got my first paying job as a cub-photographer/darkroom minion. Not long after that I made my first million (test strips...not dollars). |
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Wendi Kaminski, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Beverly Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 11:51 AM on 01.11.06 |
| ->> I think I have found my big break. It was tough going and found a lot of papers in our area just not hiring entry level shooters. I thought all my hard work and persistence was not going to pay off. Then two days after my internship ended with the Daily Pilot, I got a call that the Canyon News wanted me. The whole thing was a whirlwind from there. I went in for a less than 10min. interview with the publisher she said she would call me for a second interview when the scheduling was done with the board of directors. In a few short days I was rolling with them. But it took knocking on a lot of doors and meeting a lot of people. The prior posts are so right, it's really the relationships in this business with a tad of luck. Now I am working with a paper at the ground floor and will be able to see it grow and there are so many possibilities (not just shooting, but designing, writing etc.) for me here. Hard work does pay off and just keep shooting, shooting, shooting. If you are struggling in an area of your work, get a mentor. Find a shooter that has been in the biz for a while and see if they can help you find your niche or your eye for a particular style. I cannot tell you how much I have learned from my mentor. And because of the my relationship with him, I think that also helped me get a my current position because I used him as a reference too. He has seen me grow, struggle, be frustrated and a gamete of more emotions. Because of that relationship, he was able to really get a sense of me and who I am as a person and a shooter. Then when the tough questions come from an editor/publisher he can really give them honest and good answers. Well that is my $.02 for now. I hope what I have learned I can pass on to others eventually, in mentoring. I wish you all the best. |
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Tim Gruber, Student/Intern
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Hanover | PA | USA | Posted: 10:03 PM on 01.11.06 |
->> Hey Johnny,
Chris is right the big break falls on your shoulders. I was in your shoes just a few months ago. Fresh out of school with a degree in a field that no longer peaked my curiosity and a portfolio that had no business being sent to editors. I haven't had what I'd call a big break although I have been given opportunities to grow. What makes you think you can't apply for internships? Most internships I've applied to are open to students as well as recent grads. You're at a wonderful stage in your life...free of any classes and I'm assuming not many other obligations so exploit that for all it's worth. Find a project and pour your heart into it. Then go to those same editors and show them how sincere you really were. |
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Tom Theobald, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 01.13.06 |
->> All,
Near and dear topic to me and everyone here I think. Lesson-->When brass ring comes, be ready and follow-through. My quick story...
In mid-80's, I had become regular contributor to smaller magazines in artistic gymnastics. Before 1985 World Champs (Montreal), I sent a one page note to SI with a tear sheet and just said I would be there. One of the assistants saved the letter and on Sunday, last day of the champs, I get a call from NYC! There was an SI staffer assigned, but his film was unusable. SI wanted all my film from that week and asap. Flew the 100+ rolls to NYC (only option, there was no FedEx). They processed all films and use 3 shots. Next morning as I depart the Time-Life Building for Calif, Heinz Kluetmeier is leaving also with his gear to go out on assignment. I couldn't believe what just happened to me...
I tried same technique one other time. This time it was after figure skating Worlds. SI quick again wanted anything on pairs skater Ekaterina Gordeeva. But my big mistake was the best originals of her had been sent off already. This was way before digital and there was no Photoshelter archive to back me up. So I missed the brass ring that time. At this point I think Brad Mangin and Thomas Witte would advise, you have to STAY IN TOUCH with the important contacts you make. If they liked you once, they will like you again and keep trying and letting them know where you are and what you are doing.
After 1988, I left pro sports photog for 10-years. Finally (in 1998), I showed my earlier skating work to a newswire stringer in my hometown (San Diego). During the World Series that year, he calls me one day and says, "Get your get gear" and to meet him at the ballpark. They used one shot and I have been stringing ever since for same wire. So keep trying mates! Tom |
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Christopher Pike, Photographer
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Brandon | MB | CANADA | Posted: 9:14 PM on 01.14.06 |
->> Johnny,
Good question . . . I was in college 9 months ago and asking the same thing. My story goes kinda like this:
I left school early after nailing down a 3 week placement at the Winnipeg Free Press, drove the 2500 KM cross country to do that. Worked my butt off for those 3 weeks and then left for home (Calgary, Alberta) to figure out what to do next.
After 4 days at home the night photo editor at the Free Press phoned, asking me to come back to fill in for a photog shortage. Left home, and ended up in Winnipeg for another 2 months working my butt off.
I left Winnipeg for a 3 month contract at the London Free Press in London, Ontario. Again, worked my butt off for 2.5 months. Before my time was up in London, I got word from the guys at the Winnipeg Free Press that there was a staff gig open at their sister paper (Brandon Sun).
A good word was put in for the kid that worked his butt off and 5 months after leaving school I was on staff at a daily paper in the second biggest city in the province. Been here for 4 months now and still working my butt off . . .
So biggest tips I could give are . . . make good contacts, shoot lots of pictures and work your butt off!
good luck
-pike- |
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