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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Sportsshooter Members in Cannon Ad
James Rulison, Photographer
Chino Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 9:03 PM on 02.09.05
->> So I get home tonight and begin to go through the mail when I find the latest issue of SI. I don't even make it two pages in to find a Canon Ad;

"The most dominant team at Super Bowl XXXIX never made it off the sidelines."

So I am looking at this picture and I wonder how much they pay Max Morse or Z for using their likeness in this photo because you can clearly make them and others out in this image. So did your credentials come with model releases?

Best,
James
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 11:14 PM on 02.09.05
->> James:

I'm glad you brought this topic up. I can clearly identify at least 7 photographers I know from this ad and I'll be they didn't sign a model release to be used in that ad.

If these photographers sit still for this then I really hold out little hope for the future of the photographic industry.

Rick
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
Salem (Portland) | OR | USA | Posted: 12:38 AM on 02.10.05
->> I wonder if this fall under the credential usage.... some clause about your likeness being used etc.... With Canon being a Sponsor of the NFL...
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:01 AM on 02.10.05
->> ALL ---

Everyone in that ad signed a release from what I was told at the game.

And they were all paid something by Canon for being pictured in the ad.

Please don't assume and post without checking with the people involved first creating rumor and mis-information.

Thanks.

Hanashiro.
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Kyle Carter, Photographer
Meridian | MS | USA | Posted: 1:18 AM on 02.10.05
->> AY!!! You guys are killing me!! For those of us who don't get our SI until Friday, if we are lucky, what photo are you talking about? Can I find it on the web anywhere? I would like to see it.
Thanks,
Kyle
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 02.10.05
->> Gosh Robert, I guess it could be possible to have all those photographers sign releases. Anything is possible.

I'm just wondering if one of them didn't. I'm also wondering if the impossible happened does the one have the hutspa to push the point.

Of course this is the same industry that gives the rights to its pictures away willy nilly.

Rick
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 02.10.05
->> Great ad!!!

Jeff
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:02 AM on 02.10.05
->> Rick ---

Just so you know, the ad was arranged in advance by Canon and was shot several hours before kick off.

This was not shot during the game.
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 2:10 AM on 02.10.05
->> Thank you for the needed information. I do feel better about the entire situation now. I was having real trouble believing that someone could get all those releases on the fly. I have had to do that before and it's next to impossible to make sure that you have everyone. Thanks Robert!

Rick
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:22 AM on 02.10.05
->> Cool!

'Nuf said ...

Now everyone can go back to beating up on WireImage, Getty, The Ap, the NBA and publications and entities that grab rights, under-pay photographers or use their work without their knowledge!
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Steven Georges, Photographer
Garden Grove | CA | USA | Posted: 6:42 AM on 02.10.05
->> Thank's Robert, that explains the Super Bowl logo in the perfect place, I was wondering if it was PhotoShop'ed in. I'm assuming the fans on top were also staged.
Cool ad.

I'm surprised no one was caught chimping. :-)
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:50 AM on 02.10.05
->> Bert "the all knowing" has spoken.

Or did he simply apply the first rule of journalism, get the facts first? Amazing what happends when you apply journalistic rules to one's writings. There is a lesson here: before we are SportsShooters, we are Photo-JOURNALISTS. Don't jump to a conclusion without the facts. Make a phone call, dig for the facts, be REAL journalists first.

"'Nuf said" said Robert Hanashiro.
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Mike Brice, Photographer
Northwood | OH | USA | Posted: 7:55 AM on 02.10.05
->> Anybody have a problem with the ad staged before the Super Bowl but clearly trying to represent that it was during the game.

I know that the same ethics rules don't apply to advertising as photojournalism, but it just doesn't seem right. And I shoot Canon.
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Aaron Johnson, Photographer
Rockford | IL | U.S.A. | Posted: 8:06 AM on 02.10.05
->> Rick-

Which seven did you come up with? I only got four. Max, Z, Jed Jacobsohn, John McDonough.

I think I see Bob Rosato and John Biever, but I could be wrong.
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Mark J. Rebilas, Photographer
Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 8:37 AM on 02.10.05
->> "The most dominant team at Super Bowl XXXIX never made it off the sidelines."

So does that make us Nikon guys the Eagles?.......oh well thats better than the 49ers I guess
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 9:30 AM on 02.10.05
->> "ethics" and "advertising"

I'm not too sure you can use both of these words in the same sentence.

Has you forgotten about the "Desperate Housewives" bit on MNF

VERY BIG ;-)
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Mike Brice, Photographer
Northwood | OH | USA | Posted: 9:47 AM on 02.10.05
->> Robert,
I normally would not be concerned about it but since the ad is targeted, at least to some degree, to photojournalists, it would seem that it should have some sense of fair play to it.
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Jason Orth, Photographer
Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 10:00 AM on 02.10.05
->> I figured an ad for Cannons would be better in Guns N' Ammo...
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Brian Light, Photographer
Pennsville | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:11 AM on 02.10.05
->> Didn't you all see the release written on the food at the Canon luncheon? It basically stated that consumption of this food is acceptance of use of your image tomorrow at the game for a Superbowl add to appear in SI. ;)
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 11:04 AM on 02.10.05
->> "The most dominant team at Super Bowl XXXIX never made it off the sidelines."

...because we tackled and arrested anyone who walked onto the field." :)
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 11:08 AM on 02.10.05
->> I thought a couple things didn't quite make sense when I first looked at the ad. Of course I understand now, knowing that it was staged.

I wondered what could be so interesting that that many photogpraphers would be lined up 2 and 3 deep so early in the afternoon that the sun was still shining.
And with all the complaints about the security guards on the field, I wondered how all those green vests were being allowed to shoot. I wore a messenger/runner vest one year and when I tried to take a snapshot to show my family that I was there, a security guy threatened to take my credential away.

But now it all makes sense.
I don't suppose they all got a new 1Ds mark II?
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Doug Keese, Student/Intern
Miramar | FL | United States | Posted: 11:10 AM on 02.10.05
->> Geez, it's amazing how much speculation can come about on how things happened and and what people did or didn't sign. I was part of the ad (and yes you did see Rosato and Biever) and everyone did sign a release. No, the fans were not staged, they were actually there. That location was picked b/c of the light and the logo. As much as the canon brunch could've been decent compensation (the size of the steaks!) it was not. We were all, however, compensated for participating in the ad. (which was one of the other reasons releases were signed, so that canon has our mailing addresses and contact info). It wasn't a big production, took about 15 minutes total and most of us were on the field anyway. So, there you have it.
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Jed Jacobsohn, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 11:23 AM on 02.10.05
->> Rick,

First off, you have to work on your Yiddish. Second, get your facts straight and stop assuming the worst. No one was forced to be in the ad and everyone who did, signed a release and was compensated for it. Why do you insist on attacking everyone who doesn't fit in lock step with your idea of proper business ethics? As Bert said: Now everyone (you) can go back to beating up on WireImage, Getty, The Ap, the NBA and publications and entities that grab rights, under-pay photographers or use their work without their knowledge! Your the one with a lot of chutzpah!
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 11:28 AM on 02.10.05
->> Mark,

The 49ers will be back and we have 5 Superbowl rings. That makes us even better than the Eagles..... and Patriots.

..........In fact, We are the best franchise in the NFL at 5-0 and in three years, we will be 6-0.

Jeff
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 02.10.05
->> Back to the ad, It was a great ad. The light was perfect and there were no dish guys...... I wish the world could be so perfect.

Jeff
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Daniel Tunstall, Photographer
Pearland | TX | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 02.10.05
->> Gosh guys, Cut James a little slack, he did start this thread with good intent, looking out for fellow SS members interests.

I am glad all got paid for their work as superchimps.
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John Riddell, Photographer
Toronto | ON | Canada | Posted: 12:18 PM on 02.10.05
->> Can someone maybe point us folks that don't have access to the mag to a spot on the 'net to see this gem of an ad?

Thanks,

John
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Darrell Miho, Photographer
Temple City | CA | usa | Posted: 12:25 PM on 02.10.05
->> so the next BIG question, who SHOT the ad???
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James Rulison, Photographer
Chino Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 12:43 PM on 02.10.05
->> Hey hey I don't think anyone was attacking me... my comments should easily be seen as just interested. Now where is Waldo in this ad?

Best,
James
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 1:04 PM on 02.10.05
->> Darrell,
It says in the top right corner of the ad,
"photo: Peter Read Miller, taken with a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II"
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Matt Brown, Photographer
Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 02.10.05
->> If you didn't know the ad was arranged in advance by Canon wake up! First, Max with Peter? Second, Johnny M and Johnny B wouldn't be six feet from each other. Third, Jed is laughing. And the game didn't start during the DAY TIME!!!
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
Halifax | NS | Canada | Posted: 1:31 PM on 02.10.05
->> Did Peter Read Miller keep his copyright and licence the image or was it a work for hire arrangement :-)
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Steven Georges, Photographer
Garden Grove | CA | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 02.10.05
->> Hey, hands off Rick and James. They clearly stated they were "wondering." If you don't ask you don't find out. Thanks to this thread, I found out.

Mike, Yes the ethics did bother me. It wasn't really targeted to photojournalists (it was in SI, not News Photographer) but to those who "want the camera the pro's are using." This is where the real money is made.

The deceptive ad wasn't the part that bothered me, it's an ad. It was the fact that journalist (playing themselves) were participating in the deceptive ad. That said, I'm not sure I would have turned down the opportunity to have some fun with my friends either.

Q; How do you tell if a sales/ad guy is lying?
A: His lips are moving. :-)
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John David Emmett, Photographer
Dallas | TX | United States | Posted: 1:40 PM on 02.10.05
->> Who's the guy with the little 70-200 on the back row amid all the 400 to 600 mm lenses? Thought that was pretty funny.
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James Rulison, Photographer
Chino Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 02.10.05
->> I don't have the picture in front of me right now but I think that is Max Morse. I know he had 70-200 and it was pretty funny seeing him there amongst the big guns.

Best,
James
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Byron Hetzler, Photographer
Granby | CO | USA | Posted: 6:45 PM on 02.10.05
->> Just picked up mine from the P.O. and yep, that's Max in the back row.
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Jason Grow, Photographer
Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 7:40 PM on 02.10.05
->> Speaking of camera ads, does anyone know if those guys in VII were aware they were in a Canon ad too? I mean, someone takes a quick snap of them while they're hanging out in some cool French cafe, talking photojournalism and war and stuff and wham... next thing they know they're all in a bunch of ads hawking Canons? What's up with that? Or... were they just pretending to be hanging out in some cool French cafe talking photojournalism and war and stuff?
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Jim Sykes, Photographer
Montgomery Village | Md | | Posted: 7:48 PM on 02.10.05
->> There is a picture of it in this thread on another forum. http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=1600557

If that doesnt work you can try this too.
http://uploads.offtopic.com/files/ad.jpg
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Jason Orth, Photographer
Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 8:37 PM on 02.10.05
->> That VII shoot HAD to be set up. Only a Leica could have caught that moment. ;-)
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Chris Large, Photographer
Okotoks | AB | Canada | Posted: 11:24 PM on 02.10.05
->> Ethics and advertising....give me a break. Its a shot meant to sell some cameras not showing the suffering in a third world country. We gotta stop taking ourselves so seriously. I really can't understand whats up with that. I agree with the need for honesty in shooting news etc but advertising is a whole different world. Its a fun shot, relax and enjoy it.

Chris
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Wes Hope, Photographer
Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 12:38 AM on 02.11.05
->> I just got home and ripped open my copy of SI to see what the fuss was about. My only questions were:

A) What's up with cloning the SportsShooter logos off the hats? (Where's the love, man?)

B) What's up with the left-handed technique and the sideways cap on the shooter to the right of Max Morse and his 70-200 (to Max's left)? Former Nikon shooter who still can't figure the reverse zoom and focus thing out?

Who am I kidding, I'm still waiting on Nikon to do an ad with just me on the sidelines behind my black lens in a sea of gray. "Nikon. The few, the stubborn, the outnumbered."
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Doug Holleman, Photographer
Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 1:08 AM on 02.11.05
->> In case Nikon is interested, I have a photo of me watching the game on TV with my D100 in my lap. I'll even sign a release.
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Gary Dineen, Photographer
Cedarburg | WI | USA | Posted: 1:34 AM on 02.11.05
->> I don't think anyone should take issue with those who appeared in this ad. If there are issues, the responsible parties would be the agency directing the ad (and supplying the design and copy for its presentation) along with the client (Canon). They are the ones ultimately responsible for how the picture/situation is portrayed to the viewing audience.

The conundrum here is that photographers (some or all of which are also journalists) were placed into an unreal situation with the sole purpose of lending their credibility to the endorsement of a product.

The big question here is whether Canon intended to capitalize on their credibility as talented users of equipment - or on their credibility as journalists.

If they are viewed as journalists in this situation, then that would place them in a rather precarious ethical position - because journalists are continually fighting to be viewed as honest, unbiased purveyors of objective information.

Most likely, however, this group of photographers will be viewed as a select few who have risen to the top of their profession, helped in part by the equipment they use.

Having said that, I do think the ad would have been less confusing (and perhaps more effective) if the photo was, without question, a posed photo. It could have showed this eclectic group of photographers, all demonstrating some attitude - with a tag line something like "We kicked a** from the kickoff. We didn't let up and neither did our cameras."

So, could there be a future for me in advertising - or should I keep my day job? :)
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Sam Morris, Photographer
Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 2:27 AM on 02.11.05
->> Oy. It's a stupid cannibalization of previous Canon ads. It's an ad. Who the hell other than photographers would even noticed the ad? Nobody. Photographers got to have fun.
And runners got to be on the front lines in their green vests. Get over it.

I just hope they got more than a lukewarm hotdog and dogmeat chili for their "effort."

Sam

BTW, any participants care to say what they got for being in the ad?
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Nathan Simpson, Photographer, Student/Intern
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 4:38 AM on 02.11.05
->> In advertising no rules apply. I PS stuff out and in to almost every shot that goes for an add or stock. My rule is “doctor every thing”. If I think she should have a blue accent band on her shirt rather than ping then it is now blue. i hold 1 morel code in doctoring, I will not make an athlete do some thing they cant really do using PS. (EV. moving them higher up in the air is a no no.)
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Nathan Simpson, Photographer, Student/Intern
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 4:53 AM on 02.11.05
->> Sorry for the typos its suppose to be "pink band in her shirt not ping" "and EX not EV" 1 beer dos a lot for someone that doesn’t drink very often ;-)
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David Burnett, Photographer
Arlington | VA | usa | Posted: 8:47 AM on 02.11.05
->> OKOK.. i hate to actually jump in on this one, but here is a great little tidbit about the VII ad: It was originally shot with one of the then members, on the right, who later left the agency, and was replaced by Joachim Ladefoeg, who was shot later at the same place, and added to the original picture..

hey, folks. its an AD!!! lighten up....

if you LIKE the gear, and dont mind letting people know you LIKE the gear, then telling people you LIKE the gear is fair enough

dave burnett
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Alan Stewart, Photographer, Photo Editor
Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 02.11.05
->> Dumb question, but was the very-similar Olympic ad for Canon posed, too?
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Oscar Sosa, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 02.11.05
->> One more reason to switch to Canon. They'll put you in an ad.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer, Photo Editor
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 12:43 PM on 02.11.05
->> If there's any "ethical" issue anyone should be concerned about with Canon, it's the long-running series for the D-Rebel of a fast-action NFL seuqence that that camera could NEVER have produced. The small type says "images produced with various EOS equipment." (In other words, not THIS $900 camera, but the $8,000 one.)

Now THAT is deceptive and unethical. A bunch of photogs in a staged shot before th big game? Whoop-de-doo. It's just a cleaned-up version of reality. The D-Rebel ad clearly is something beyond that.
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Alan Stewart, Photographer, Photo Editor
Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 1:41 PM on 02.11.05
->> The problem is that these days we don't exactly know what reality is...

To add to Wes' questions:

1) I'd love to know why someone would be chimping in a fake shot (front row, far right). :-)

2) Did the photographers whose faces you can't see to the left and right of the image also get compensation?
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