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Your photo thought process...
Brian Nicholson, Photographer
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Ogden | Utah | USA | Posted: 7:23 PM on 09.01.04 |
->> I was just bumping around online looking for some upbeat photos to get me over a little post-funeral-coverage blues and I came across some very cool Olympic photos.
Check out this site:
http://www.joachimladefoged.com/ It's under "photo essays."
I know that many of you have heard of him before since he's a member of VII. His Olympic coverage is very inspiring and very original.
When the 2002 games were here in Utah, I wanted to do something completelty different, completely original, different than anybody else. But when it came right down to it, I was too much of a lemming, trying to get that "money shot" which in the end, everyone else had.
After looking at Ladefoged's work, I must ask the question...
How do you, as a photojournalist, reach beyond the mundane? How do you train yourself to reach beyond your normal way of seeing things? How do you change the way your photographs feel and speak to your viewers.
I have tried many times to see things completely different, to shoot things differently, to tell stories in a different way. Sometimes it works but many times I get bogged down with excuses like: "The paper will never go for this." "My editor will not be happy with this shot." "This is really not the newspaper's 'style.'"
I understand that there are stories out there which must be covered in a certain way and that the event coverage we always see is valuable and needed for our various clients.
However, I would like this to be a thoughtful and informative discussion about what you think it takes to reach the next level, or the level beyond that. What is it about these photos by Ladefoged - or other great photographers - that really amaze you. More importantly, what is it that gets you to that level yourself?
BN |
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Joseph Toth, Student/Intern, Assistant
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Ft Walton Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 9:53 PM on 09.01.04 |
->> Very good topic... similar to what is going on in one of my journalism classes. When I think of the next 'level' I am always reminded that there is no final level in anything except life. Even in my day-to-day military life I am always striving to be better, there is no best.
I still get butterflies before I shoot, and that includes peewee sports all the way up the chain. I use this nervous energy to focus my thoughts and pre-visualize the environment I will be shooting in; I think of every possible situation I might face during my assignment. I also do something that many might consider childish. I have a scrapbook of images I have saved over the years; most of the images are from SI, Magnum, and various other organizations. I try to suck up as much inspiration from these images before going out to shoot.
I think innovation is important too. Whenever I shoot I like to try as many new things as possible. Out of 100 new things I try, I might fail at 99. But I will have succeeded at one new thing. I try to use all the resources available to me; Ft Walton Beach is a sleepy sports town, so it takes allot of imagination. I never leave any piece of equipment at home... even my Holgas get some airtime.
What worries me is getting stuck in an environment that will not allow me to express myself. I hope that I was hired because I was different, and saw things in a way no one else did.
To this day my favorite sport-photography moment is when I was in high school and helped out at the Sun-Sentinel. Preston Mack was kind enough to let me tag along and help him out. We covered a HS baseball game and I didn't have any fast-glass. He let me use a pool Nikon 600, f4 manual focus lens. I think I griped to myself quite a bit about the 'lack' of technology... but what I didn't know was that having to focus manually is no easy feat. I think I ended up with one good image that day, but I learned a valuable lesson. To this day I remember that situation and just tell myself that as long as I use everything available to me I should have no problem obtaining the best image possible.
Cheers,
Joe Toth |
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Richard Walker, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 10:03 PM on 09.01.04 |
->> Hey Brian, thanks for the URL, those are some pretty off-the-hook images. I liked a lot of them. Although some seemed to work better in color than grey-scaled. Lots of fun to look at, and as you mentioned, very inspirational.
Anyway, about the meat of the matter... Actually this afternoon before I came in to work (desk shift tonight), I was thinking about imagery, and how I've been in kind of a rut lately. Not sure what it is, but I think I've been a bit afraid to take chances, and it's showing in my work. I just got my Communication Arts Photo Annual yesterday, and browsed it briefly last night, and there's one image that sticks in my mind (can't recall the photog, alas) I believe it's Bush walking down the AF1 steps in the lower right corner, against a completely white background. Simple, stark, but says a lot. I can't get it out of my head for some reason.
I'm with you on worries aver how the paper might react to 'different' imagery. I'm pretty lucky that the paper I work for is pretty cool with stuff that's 'out there.' But of course, there's the reader to think about too. And that crosses my mind many times. I'm of the school of thought that we shouldn't underestimate our readers, though, and sometimes we should push ourselves to get something that will give them something to think about. Broaden horizons (albeit sometimes tilted), if you will.
Times when I see myself choking up on assignment, getting lame stuff that's not really capturing the scene or the mood, are times when I need to let my mind go seemingly blank and let stuff happen. I keep an eye open for other angles, other sides to the story, other light sources, other whatever. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. And lately things haven't been happening for me. I hope that with all the recent images that have been coming out of Athens and elsewhere, my juices will get flowing again.
Photography's fun. I need to keep that in my mind. |
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Mark Bialek, Photographer
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Kalamazoo | MI | United States | Posted: 11:35 PM on 09.01.04 |
->> Brian N,
The pictures seem more self induldgent than anything else. In our quest to "reach the next level," photojournalists today often go off on artistic tangents. Reach beyond the mundane? It's the mundane ordinary guy that's been farming for 90 years that people like to read about. Look for the moments that tell the story and show what it's like to be there. With your desire and skill, those images will speak for themselves and intrigue readers.
To document life in a storytelling way is enough. Sure, make it interesting. But remember the goal. Present a candid look at human life. Use intersting lighting to convey the mood. Shoot tight and loose. Don't fall into the trap of tilting the camera just to follow a photoJ trend. Readers don't want to be educated or indoctrinated by photos. They're curious. They want to know what other people are up to. Show them. Do you want to capture life? Or do you want to fit into the current photoj mold? |
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Noah Devereaux, Student/Intern
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 11:39 PM on 09.01.04 |
->> The photog that took the photo of Bush against the blown out sky is Chris Morris of VII and lately Polaroid Democrats fame. Great photo.
As for the thought process I mostly just look for interesting light and backgrounds and wait for something to happen. The thing is that I most of my best photos weren't taken with much thought. Sometimes things just come together and you don't have time to think, you only have time to feel the image and react to it. |
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Richard Walker, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 12:21 AM on 09.02.04 |
->> Thanks Noah for the moment of clarity...
As for the photos being "self induldgent" (sic), that may very well be what they are. Why would "artistic tangents" be bad things? The only way to really try and get the so-called Different Photo would be, it seems to me, to get out of what is so normal and cliched. I saw some really neat things in those photos. Maybe they all wouldn't work in a daily paper, but I suspect that's the last place those photos would end up anyway.
And is a tilted horizon really the end of the world? |
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Noah Devereaux, Student/Intern
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 12:40 AM on 09.02.04 |
->> Tilted horizons are a problem if they're only done for the sake of tilting the horizon. Back to my thought process, I only tilt if I can get a strong vertical or horizontal element that ties down the composition. Usually that involves taking a high or low perspective with a wide lens and lining something up with the resulting perpective distortion.
The thing about Ladefoged's photos is that they capture the feel and the ambiance of the games. He saw a broader vision of the Olympics in the moments that happen in between the events that everyone else was shooting. If there is anything to be learned from these photos is to keep your eyes open for things that might not be the main event or the money shot. |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 12:58 AM on 09.02.04 |
->> The photo Richard mentions showing Bush exiting an airplane was shot by Christopher Morris while on assignment for Time. I think that's a good example of the type of image we, as photojournalists enjoy seeing made.
The problem is that the only place images like that get published is in photography books and contests. I'm exaggerating of course to make a point, but hang with me here.
If you go to Christopher Morris's website and look at his edit from the campaign trial and then look at Time magazine edit in this week's magazine, you will see a dramatically different approach.
The website edit is for photographers and photo editors to look at and be impressed with Chris Morris's "vision", The magazine edit is intended for a wholly different purpose, and it's not to impress other photographers. It's intended to take a reader to a place they cannot go. It hopes to give them insight into a president on the campaign trail.
One of the most interesting images in the magazine is a shot of Bush coming up behind Ted Kennedy and saying something in his ear. This image, to me, is a "money shot". It doesn't have an "artistic" composition. It's straightforward story-telling photojournalism that can only be acquired by paying your dues on a story for a long period of time and building relationships.
Chris Morris owned this story, but he also found the time and energy to make photos that pleased himself and his editors. I was lucky enough to be in the pool with him for short time during Gore’s campaign. At the first venue Gore was on a tarmac standing on a three step platform in cowboy boots. It was an interesting scene because if you were in front of the crowd looking at Gore it was only him, a few secret service guys, and the jet behind him. It was surreal. Morris was on it like stink. Shooting 35mm, and he had a couple Rollei TLRs. The next venue was at a retirement home and was boring as hell as Gore talked about prescription drugs. Morris hardly shot a frame. He said the tarmac shot was the best he’d had in two weeks. He thought he’d made a decent photo of Gore’s cowboy boots on those steps. The retirement home looked like many other stops he had made. In contrast, I had to cover it like a wet blanket for my paper.
I was interested in Joachim Ladefoged's Olympic gallery on a level that has everything to do with my experience as a photojournalist. I appreciate how he went looking for the un-seeable. The things one doesn't notice. He showed us the spectacle of the event along with the absurdity of it. He took me on a private tour that a travel agent couldn't have booked. I appreciate his single-mindedness. I try to make images like that sometimes and rarely succeed. I liked it for that.
On the other hand, I can't think of any publication in the United States that would ever use them. Maybe there are a few, but the market for those images has to be almost non-existent. I wonder who foot the bill for him to be in Athens. I think it's great he can convince someone to let him do that. I guess he’s earned that privilege.
I also want to address the notion of taking one's photojournalism to the next level. This is something I've thought about nearly every day of my career and have recently concluded that it's best not to think about it so much.
I noticed if I'm thinking too much about the things I should be doing to "get better" I'm not doing the things I need to do to get better.
There is no magic wand. There is no secret. There is no bit of advice that will propel your thought process from one level to the next. When I look back at what I consider to be a breakthrough moment in my work I realize it came naturally and without warning. When I least expected it.
Breakthroughs come from just working everyday, from just clearing your mind and looking through your camera. Breakthroughs come from just hustling everyday to find, develop, and execute assignments.
I hope what I say is true; I could really use one about now. |
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Rob Kerr, Photographer
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Bend | OR | US | Posted: 2:05 AM on 09.02.04 |
->> Tom,
Well writn'. I am glad you poured over the Time spread and Morris website as did I this evening after getting it in the mail.
It is too simple to agree with your above statement, so I struggle to find flaw other than the hopelessness of US publishers. We can't be hopeless about the choosing of images in US publications or evolution will not have support. This has to be the profession of optimism.
For raising eachother's levels, I believe discussion, review and study can only help this necessary task. A sentance I gleaned from some colleagues this weekend has been haunting me for an immediate challenge. And I am really enjoying it.
Maybe others on this thread can too.
I am working on "filling my corners" of the frame with more accuracy and punch. Don't know if it will work out, or help, but edge-to-middle-to-edge-to-corners precision is a great challenge for me right now, and corner content is proving to be a good growth challenge. Rule of thirds, how about a rule of 1/125ths!
Yep, sleeping on that one.... |
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Ron Alvey, Photographer
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Lebanon | OH | USA | Posted: 7:53 AM on 09.02.04 |
| ->> This is the best thread, and most interesting, that I've ever read. "Carry on" |
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Brian Nicholson, Photographer
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Ogden | Utah | USA | Posted: 4:20 PM on 09.03.04 |
->> So then should we always be stuck in a world in which the photos we like best, or are the most artistic, never get published? Is it possible to somehow redefine the norm of "newspaper style?"
I'm not saying that all newspapers are the same, or that they always run the same types of cliches. There are many which encourage a different look or a non-cliche. I just wonder if there could be advances in the non traditional type of imagery, no matter how small. In reference to Rob's comment, is an evolution of newspaper style possible?
Another question. How have images like those from Ladefoged or Morris or Nachtwey or others changed the way you cover assignments? How does seeing other's work make you think, shoot and cover events?
With me, after looking at some inspiring work, I tend to see things differently and sometimes shoot differently. I will get (in my opinion) some great non-traditional photos. One or two may get published but for the most part, they don't see the light of day. Then, of course, the inspirations fades. Like a snowboard half pipe, I gravitate back to the center of my comfort zone.
I only hope you are right, Thomas, that by just patiently shooting every day, I am becoming better, even if it's by one small little breakthrough at a time.
BN |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 09.03.04 |
->> Good thread — a lot of really great responses so far.
I think part of the problem comes from the lack of “trust” in readers that some “higher ups” in the newspaper world have. Dwelling on past experiences I’ve had, it seems that, in certain cases, editors and publishers worry that certain kinds of images — for arguments sake we’ll call them “artsy” — won’t connect with readers, who in general are thought to prefer straightforward news, features and sports images. I have a problem with that logic, because I think it sells our audiences short. If we automatically assume they won’t like an image (as opposed to running it and waiting for Grandpa Joe’s “What the hell was that on the front page” letter), I think in time we’ll stagnate.
Yes, our first obligation as journalists are our readers — getting to them the information they need in a clear, concise manner. But I don’t think that has to come at the expense of creativity and growth. And moving further with the latter thought, it’s foolish for any one of us to deny that we’re photographers … dare I say, artists. Any good newspaper reporter likely considers him/herself and equally skilled writer, just as any decent layout person doesn’t deny that he/she is a graphic artist.
Simply put, we should never deny the often-complicated duality of our chosen career paths. We should strive to satisfy both needs, and, likewise, to grow in both regards. And let’s not forget that our outlets as photojournalists don’t end at the printing press. The Internet is daily bringing us new and exciting places to develop our crafts … A Photo A Day, Blueeyes.com, foto8, and this very site, for example, are all places that allow us to embrace that which we often feel compelled to leave at the door when we walk into the newsroom each day.
OK, back to packing. Hope that made sense,
- gerry - |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 5:27 PM on 09.03.04 |
->> Thomas said this so well - it bears repeating:
"There is no magic wand. There is no secret. There is no bit of advice that will propel your thought process from one level to the next. When I look back at what I consider to be a breakthrough moment in my work I realize it came naturally and without warning. When I least expected it.
Breakthroughs come from just working everyday, from just clearing your mind and looking through your camera. Breakthroughs come from just hustling everyday to find, develop, and execute assignments.
"
Very well said Thomas.
GJ- you are right on the money, too. We should all give our readers more credit - they are smarter and more visually sophisticated than most "higher ups" think.
Good thread. |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 1:55 AM on 09.04.04 |
->> Brian asks:
Another question. How have images like those from Ladefoged or Morris or Nachtwey or others changed the way you cover assignments? How does seeing other's work make you think, shoot and cover events?
This is going to sound contridictory to my earlier statement, but getting to the next level also requires practice and work.
Rob Kerr touches and on this when he talks about working on "filling his corners". Somewhere along the line he realized that might be a compositional technique he doesn't use much, or isn't proficient at. He has now decided to focus his energy in practicing and perfecting that technique.
I've done the same thing. I once had the opportunity to assist National Geographic photographer Joel Sartore. We rode in a car for 8-hours and we talked about many things regarding photography. We talked about the notion of layers in composition and how he admired fellow shooter Sam Abell for his ability to layer information in a frame. We talked about a photo he had published in NGM of a cowboy as seen through the rear window of a car. You could see the horizontal lines of the rear defrost cutting through the image. The point of the photo was to show the theme of a dying profession. The lines were incongruous to the scene and symbolized technology leaving the cowboy behind. At least, that's how I saw it.
This gave me much to think about and I explored the idea of layering for several years and still try very hard to use that technique. In fact, I would say now that I probably went overboard with it. But if you look at Joachim Ladefoged's Olympic gallery you see he was layering in almost every composition. It's difficult to pull off successfully, because it makes complicated compositions, but if it does work, it can be a very powerful tool.
Anyway, it wasn't until I exhausted this area of expertise did I have a "breakthrough" to the next level. I was able to use it sparingly and recognize when it would work well and when it would not. But, I'm still no Sam Abell.
I think practicing a technique we see in other's work we admire can lead to a breakthrough. I think this can really be helpful when it comes to things like lighting, camera strobes, use of color, use of available light and other techniques that require skill and finesse. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 6:34 AM on 09.04.04 |
->> Brian,
Great thread with wonderful information, and sorry ahead of time for my long-winded response.
You ask, “I would like this to be a thoughtful and informative discussion about what you think it takes to reach the next level, or the level beyond that . . . More importantly, what is it that gets you to that level yourself?”
Ok, I do have a ways to go but when I look at what I shot and liked a year ago compared with what I am doing now, I feel good about the obvious differences. But, I have to work twice as hard to get there.
First, I have never played any of the sports I am trying to shoot and I am scrambling to learn rules for everything. I suppose being a fan helps for some of the sports but there is still plenty I don’t know.
Second, my baseball photos are a lot better than they were a year or two ago thanks to what I have learned from the pros on this site who share their knowledge, the magazines and books that I regularly look at and study and the fantastic presentation by VJ Lovero at last years Luau. Every photographer that I study or talk to has made a difference.
It took me almost three years to get a ball-on-bat shot. I don’t know why I thought it was important but I was ecstatic when I finally got one and couldn’t help but post a thread here about it. Brad Mangin wrote some encouraging words on how to improve your chances of getting a B.O.B.
But, then I felt a bit of a let down when I learned that most of the shooters on this site get them all the time and someone said they aren’t that big of a deal. Well, it was to me at the time. I guess I need to get a few more of the “easy” ones and the clichés before I can confidently advance to my next level.
Another thing I learned here and am trying to put into practice is taking chances. I’ve never used the rear curtain sync on the flash and slow shutter speed before going to the fair a few weeks ago. This is one good reason to do self-assignments — to experiment without worrying about messing up. I decided I desperately need more practice using the flash and wanted to try things I’ve never done before. Some of the shots worked and some didn’t but at least I was trying something new AWAY from the computer. Geez I haven’t even scratched the surface about learning lighting. :o|
During a portfolio review last weekend during the Women in Photojournalism conference, it was suggested I use a wider-angle lens and work at getting more information into some of my photos. I think Thomas touched on what I need to work on when he mentioned layering. I think that one will take a lot of practice after finally learning to shoot tight and now thinking about getting more information into the image.
Dianna |
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 8:25 AM on 09.04.04 |
->> Thomas:
It's great to see discussion that centers on the improvement of vision for a change. I'm often discouraged by topics on this site but I'm elated by this discussion!
It's wonderful to see people working at advancement in their work. How to reach that next level? It's a topic that never ends. I relate directly to your statement that improvement comes when you are just working naturally. After working at this for a few days now, I've come to realize that the most difficult thing in photography for me is using the layering techniques you mention to successfully simplify complexity.
It's a never ending challenge to fill the frame, corner to corner, with skillfully positioned information that still communicates readily with a sense of aesthetic beauty that cries to be looked at. I don't do it well and am still striving to do it more readily.
Someone referred to Joachim's work as self indulgent. In a sense, all our work should be a touch self indulgent. After all we all have an opinion and we all should be striving to express those opinions in our work.
As journalists we have the responsibility to report. But, we also have the responsibility to assess. Sometimes it's that assessment process that makes others think. Sometimes it's that assessment process that helps us grow and reach that next level. Just my opinion.
Rick |
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Glenn Russell, Photographer
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Jericho | VT | USA | Posted: 11:52 AM on 09.04.04 |
| ->> As a newspaper photographer, I work at the intersection of information and aesthetics, transforming a fully dimensional experience into a 5"x7" collection of dots on newsprint. The challenge for me is how to present information in an honest, compelling and comprehensible fashion to the readers, using all the resources of inspiration, technology, luck and timing that I can bring to bear. What I find really difficult is trying to get a different picture from an ordinary assignment, especially one I've done hundreds of time before (man at computer, woman outstanding in her field, etc.). I try to pre-visualize a picture I might be able to come away with, drawing on the work of other photographers and my own imagination. At the same time, I try to stay open to the circumstances of the assignment and not become prisoner to my pre-conceptions. Sometimes it works, but many times the pictures are a long way from transcendent. That's where resources like Sportsshooter comes in. The information we get from our fellow photographers' work and thoughts is invaluable. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 12:07 PM on 09.04.04 |
->> As Brian orginally said, sometimes the mind set is get the money shot, and keeping what your editor wants in mind.
While shooting the ALCS last year at Fenway I got bored with the same photos, from the same pit during every game. I ended up leaving the 3rd base line to wander the Big Green Monster with two lenses, a 400f2.8 and a 17-35f2.8. I liked what I got, but being the only photog/editor at the game for my client they went absolutely ballistic that I got off the line for 1.5 innings to "explore."
I was happier with my images from the wall, and in the stands, but they had steam coming out of their ears. I did a similar thing the next night at Fenway, and the same result, I was happy, they were pissed. I didn't miss any crucial plays, not that I planned that or could predict that, but sometimes the same shot over and over again sucks.
I like to go to some games with an idea of what I want to do, I do this often covering the Patriots. I know the stadium, I know the light in the stadium, so I have a bit more relaxed style there as I wander around, but it comes up in conversation with a client at times.
I can't for the life of me understand why an editor wants the same shot from every game, but many editors want the same photo, over and over and over again.
I think I just lost my train of thought....oh yea, photo process. Before a game I try and get a good map of the stadium, talk to some people who know the stadium, and if ZI can find out the rarely used photo positions, or talk to security about walking around. I like to watch the sidelines, or if I can go in the opposite direction of the crowd to make my photos. I make a choice that if everyone is towards the middle of the field, I like to move to the corners, more than 50% of the time if the herd is heading the side of the field I chose the end zone.
While my photos are not of the excellence of many who I admire, it makes me happier to ignore the herd and move in my own direction. My logic is that I am a freelancer, I need to be able to resell my images. If everyone is "over there" how am I going to compete with them? I can't try and compete with the images pumped into editors computers by AP, Reuters, Getty, EPA, so I try and move away from them , which allows my clients a different choice. Sometimes this works, sometimes it does not. |
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Ben Burgeson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Poway | CA | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 09.04.04 |
->> By no means am I an authority on origionality but i've been told i have a unique process. here are quotes i get inspiration from...
invention is mostly this subtle, inevitable thing...I mean it comes from your nature, your identity. We've all got an identity. You can't avoid it. It's what's left when you take everything else away. I think the most beautiful inventions are the ones you don't think of. -Diane Arbus
If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough. -Robert Capa, before he got too close to mine that killed him, while covering Indochina.
There are too many people studying it [photography] now who are never going to make it. You can’t give them a formula for making it. You have to have it in you first, you don’t learn it. The seeing eye is the important thing. -Imogen Cunningham, "Dialogue With Photography" by Paul Hill, ISBN: 0948797665 , page: 240
Stare. It is the way to educate your eye, and more. Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long. -Walker Evans
I do what I feel, that's all, I am an ordinary photographer working for his own pleasure. That's all I've ever done. -Andrè Kertész, in the TV show American Masters in 1985.
I'm trying to please myself; certainly that's a big criterion... though in a sense, I don't take images jusy for myself. I take images that I think other people will want to see. I don't take pictures to put in a box and hide them. I want as many people to see them as possible. -Mary Ellen Mark, "Mary Ellen Mark : 25 Years" by Marianne Fulton, ISBN: 0821218387, page: 14
The contemporary artist...is not bound to a fully conceived, previsioned end. His mind is kept alert to in-process discovery and a working rapport is established between the artist and his creation. While it may be true, as Nathan Lyons stated, 'The eye and the camera see more than the mind knows,' is it not also conceivable that the mind knows more than the eye and the camera can see? -Jerry Uelsmann
The satisfaction comes from working next to 500 photographers and coming away with something different. -David Burnett |
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Chris Jordan, Photographer
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Whitefish | MT | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 09.04.04 |
->> "You have to make photography a life choice, not a career choice."
This is the advice that one of my heros gave me when I showed him my portfolio, and it has helped me tremendously. I think you can improve, as Thomas said, through practice and through shooting everyday. However, until you completely surrender yourself to your art it is hard to find the passion that is necessary to really practice photography, rather than just shoot pictures. To get better you have to always think about photography, look at pictures, read message boards, visualize new photos, practice with lights, show your work to people and most importantly you have to care about what you do.
This site deals with photographing action, but 60 percent of the things we shoot are non-moving - the guy at the computer, the town fair, the portrait, the farmer. This is where Joachim Ladefoged, Christopher Morris, Alan Berner, Rob Finch and other truly great shooters excell. Rob Finch said, "Sometimes when nothing's happening, everything is." I think this shows in Jadefoged's olympic coverage. Mark B. called it self-indulgent, I call it inspiring. I strive to make pictures of the mundane that are filled with moments of beauty and emotion. I spend most of my waking hours thinking about it, and even though I very rarely feel satisfied with the photos I take, I still feel satisified, in fact proud, of the fact that I am trying. |
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Trevor Frey, Student/Intern
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Bowling Green | KY | USA | Posted: 9:39 PM on 09.04.04 |
->> Hello all, My thanks for this thread...I read most of it before heading out this afternoon and when faced with a disgruntled dude, sighed to myself and moved on...which I would like to think I would have done anyhow, but I had a fresh dose of inspiration, it was easier to do!
The way I approach shooting differs from day to day.....somedays, if it's a big game day or news event I like to get their early, get a hot dog, and "smell the air." I'm a big advocate for doing all the thinking everywhere else but when you are trying to shoot.....thinking too much has never helped me do anything but work myself into a dither.
I'll maybe have a thought in the back of my mind (very much so if recently scolded about visual variety, or some similar thing) about watching for light or a moment, especially if I am shooting a story, but the conversations about deeper meaning and layers, I try to have at night on the porch.
Same Abell is a hero.
My apologies to Chris Doane, Jason Hunt and Jerome Pollos...sorry i haven't been good at keeping in touch guys...
best, trev |
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Andy Rogers, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 2:54 PM on 09.06.04 |
| ->> Experimenting with photographic techniques and refining visual style are important, but I think Tom Boyd made a terrific point: The moment you stop thinking of a technique as "your style", put it in your tool box with the rest of the things you've learned and return to the task of telling the story...that's when you truly take a step forward as a photojournalist. In the end, content reigns supreme. I want more than anything to shoot and publish photos that challenge the reader visually and intellectually, but not at the expense of content. Yes, photojournalism can be artistic, but in the end, our goal isn't art, it's communication. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 8:02 PM on 09.06.04 |
->> This summer I went to Nashville to help with some 20 college students over a quick 2 day workshop. The theme the professor chose for the weekend was “how do you stay creative?”
We took the students to three different locations. A creative director who does television sets and trade show sets as well as some advertising was the first stop. To the question how do you stay creative was the response of I primarily am here to solve my client’s problem. Sometimes they have an idea which I must implement and hopefully can notch it up a bit. Rarely, but occasionally they come to him for concept as well. Art for him is moving things around in space to where they create something new and exciting.
The next stop was “The Arts Company” on fifth avenue, north. There they strolled around and again asked how do you stay creative? While a little more about process, there is still the problem solving issue at the core.
The students went out and shot an assignment which we then critiqued in the evening at another photographers home.
The next day we went by a photographer’s studio at his home. While he started as a photojournalist he was now doing events. He not only did the still images, but video and sound for conventions all over the world. He had just gotten back from a couple weeks in France. How does he stay creative? Well he also answered with I meet the client’s needs. Sometimes they just need a grip and grin and I have learned to give them just that. He will always look for more things to toss in the shoot, but he first and foremost meets the client’s needs first.
The students realized primary in this business of the freelancer is business. Freelancers are developing strong relationships with their clients so they can not only meet the needs of the client, but anticipate their needs before they even have them. My photo process is trying to understand my client so as to anticipate their needs and meet them so there jobs are not only easier, but fun. |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 10:23 PM on 09.06.04 |
->> Stanley:
I think we all have a desire to survive and please our employers/clients. It’s the motivation we all have to get up in the morning and go to work.
I think the tug-of-war between our desire to please our bosses and the desire to create something truly creative and personal is the core issue in this thread.
Brian started this discussion with the question of ways for him to be inspired and take his work to the next level of creativity and thoughtfulness while still balancing the needs of his publication.
Maybe we are talking about two different things here. They are talking about building something from the ground up based on the clients plans. We are talking about ways to photograph something that already exists in a creative way. They are directing and controlling people to look a certain way. We are observing people as they go about their business. These two approaches require a completely different frame of mind and motivation.
In the end, I don’t think their advice is that helpful to me as a newspaper photographer. I try to avoid thoughts like that when I’m looking through the camera. I try to think of ways to tell a story with pictures that I will want to look at later and show to my friends. |
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Matthew Knight, Photographer
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Cedar Falls | IA | usa | Posted: 11:09 PM on 09.06.04 |
->> When I started this journey (photography) I made images for myself. Now I work for a university and make images for their use.
With that said I can't think of a time when I wasn't thinking about making pictures. Can you?
This photography thing infects you!
You can't put it away.
You can't turn it off.
Making images everyday gets tiresome. Your mind can and will get caught in ruts which, while in, seem like they will never end. But there is always something that brings me back. I get up every-morning with the chance to go investigate.
To go record.
To go listen.
Some of the things I do to help break up the monotony are
1 Take my camera away from my eye and watch people. Now I understand that deadlines may not allow one to wander aimlessly around, but to get a look form behind the camera can be refreshing.
2 Listen to people whom I look up to and are doing it. I lurk on these boards more than I should admit and soak up all I can. It plays in you subconscious while shooting.
3 Take photos for my self. I am now learning that I need to create. BFA in art ( photography and Art History ). If I take the time to stimulate myself visually it will come back in my work for clients. I will hone a technique or just find a different approach to working with people.
It all matters.
The images we see here on this site to the images we may have from our parents and grandparents.
They all affect the way we are visually molded.
Not everyone of our frames are golden but they all help produce the ones that are. |
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Tom Leininger, Photographer
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Lafayette | IN | USA | Posted: 11:48 PM on 09.06.04 |
->> When in doubt I turn to the master--Garry Winogrand--who said that there is no particular way a photograph should look. John Szarkowski, editor of the book "Winogrand Figments from the Real World", writes "...he could not abide a lens that made photographs look a special way." page 23. (The first quote is a paraphrase.)
This book really turned me on to Winogrand who focused me into a certain style. I have pages of underlined text in my copy, it took me some time to find these quotes, and I am glad I did.
What freedom in these statements.
After I bought this book I poured over the pages for months at a time. It was the first book that seriously opened my eyes to someone other than a Magnum photographer.
And no matter what, I always go back to Winogrand. Because his visual sense is something I can relate to. It just sort of happened that way. Other photographers work I wanted to like and emulate, but I had to force it. Winogrand makes sense, to me.
I failed to become to the next Garry Winogrand.
Over time, a visual sense that I am willing to defend to an editor who might not understand has developed. How? Working a lot. Refusing to make a safe pictures when I needed. Failing over and over. Making nothing but safe pictures. Buying zoom lenses, selling zoom lenses. Getting used to one body and one lens. Buying a leica and making a lot of bad pictures with it. Failing some more....it goes on until Bill Snead distilled it for me.
Here is the quote I hear in my head: "Go to the assignment, figure out what the story is and come back with your take on it, whatever that is. I can't tell you how to do it."
My experience is that the more experience I get, the more I am able to trust my twist.
I am a newspaper photographer, so sometimes I have to tell the artist in me to shut up and make the image. Today, I am ok with this.
Thanks for starting this thread, because if you didn't I doubt I would have found the above quotes.
Tom |
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Colin Mulvany, Photographer
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Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 09.07.04 |
->> Over the years, I too have tried to break out of the photojournalist style box. I tried tilting my horizons (a nineties thing). I shot everything for a time with a wide-angle lens. I added drama by toning my pictures too much (because I could). I printed my B+W photos with the hand of God (an eighties thing). Used flash with mixed ambient light to jazz up too many mundane photos. Panned subjects (because it looked cool). Did all this style help me add content? Nope.
In the end, I realized I wasn't being true to my style that I had slowly developed over the last twenty years as a newspaper photojournalist. For me, a successful news photo is all about seeing moment and body language. A captured moment grabs the viewer and makes them look deeper into the picture. The simple twist of a hand, or the sparkle in an eye can make a good photograph extraordinary. Once I stopped trying to be like other photographers, I became a better shooter. That is not to say that my style can’t evolve. It has, but much more slowly over time. |
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Chris Pietsch, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 4:40 PM on 09.07.04 |
->> I'm glad to see this thread keep popping to the top of the list.
My stuff maybe wrapping fish instead of gracing a national magazine or hanging on the wall at a museum, but hey, I'll wade in anyway. (Part of the answer to "a photo thought process" is being sure of yourself right?)
To succeed in evolving "newspaper style," photographers will need to do more than explore their own inner child. To succeed in pushing the envelope, I think we have to bring people with the veto stamp along with us. We will need to do a lot of missionary work and reinvention along the way. It may not be enough to simply unveil your beloved experiment and wait around for the oohs, ahs and congratulations. Some conclusions:
a) That the paper can't run an unusual/new image if the photographer doesn't shoot it first.
b) In route to publication, the department and the photographer may be asked to defend the decision to others, and
c) It may sound funny to say it, but risk taking, is well, RISKY!
Having said that, I am constantly amazed at how often a great image can sell itself. If the photographer is really on his/her game, cramming content, feeling, and emotion into a frame, debate against running seems to wither more easily. I have also found editors more receptive to taking a chance if the stakes are less high. Say, trying something different with one of those perennial events we all love and hate to cover.
But I am also regularly amazed at how often somebody stands ready to pee on the program. It's like some folks will go out of their way to think up reasons to vote against. To succeed in getting published, we all need to be ready with a reasoned and articulate defense.
I agree with others that the newspaper as an institution can be guilty of selling viewers short. I have also learned, from painful experience, that you can please some of the people some of the time, but the people you don't please, will be way quicker to write a letter to your editor. In spite of that, I've seen success breed more success as photographers, graphics editors, others in the newsroom see the results and get over fear of negative repercussions.
Context is everything in this struggle. I think both the artist and the photojournalist are trying to communicate something, but the newspaper photojournalist is probably more bound by the culture of the masses than folks pursuing more cerebral/artistic creations.
Which brings me full circle I think. Good photographers and the editors that hire them are always asking "What does the creator of the image bring to the equation?" Be it personnality, hand eye coordination, whits, an artistic eye, technique, or dogged determination, great photographers will always find a way to win the day.
I love looking at, thinking about and creating images. I like exploring other peoples ideas and techniques. But, ultimately the measure of my success will always be grounded in the relationship between myself, my subject and the story I'm trying to tell.
As I dive into the world with my camera, the question I am tasked to answer is; "How can I, using all the experience and resource I can bring to bare, connect with a viewer though the image I create?" |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 8:23 PM on 09.07.04 |
->> Sometimes I forget many here do not know some of the basics. So here are some things which can help.
1. Take your time to understand the story. Ask questions and try to understand the real story—not the one someone sent you to shoot.
2. How can I tell the story visually?
3. What is a good one shot story telling photo?
4. What are some good details which will add more understanding about the story?
5. How tight can I get and still tell the story or an element of the story?
6. I am always thinking of one person I know and see if the photos would help this person know about the story. I chose to think of a person who was pretty uneducated and rarely ever left their neighborhood. Having this person understand for me was important.
7. Besides just watching I am listening. Would that make a good quote for the cutline? Listening and seeing if the person is getting excited that I care about them and their story. If I am not connecting—what can I do to help open up the person. Should I reveal a little about my interest and background?
8. What are the clients needs? (For example, I covered the Hurricane Charley for a relief group. They needed photos of their personnel working. I photo here or their which showed the devastation without their people wasn’t going to be used most likely. I did shoot a few, but 90% or better was showing their people)
My earlier comments about problem solving for your client are not the opposite of creative, but part of the process. “How I can make this better,” is something I never stop asking. It is also why I have only a few photos I am truly proud of after many years in the industry.
If you are out here for just yourself, your days are numbered. Staying creative means also getting words of encouragement for a job well done from others and nothing says well done as much as being hired over and over to shoot for a client.
When you take someone else’s idea and make it better then they are excited because you validate them. Sometimes you need to show them something better, but editors, creative directors and others who hire you have a purpose.
I believe in first giving the client what they want and then always trying my best to shoot something I am also proud of doing. While the client will seldom use my idea, they are very grateful that I first shot what they wanted and showed initiative to push the envelope.
People hire those they like to be around and inspire them as well.
If you do not learn how to understand the editor’s needs, no matter how strange they seem, they will find someone else who will meet their needs.
I believe the personal project keeps one’s sanity. It is this project which is similar to going to the well to draw a cold fresh drink of water. Then when it is ready you show it to others hoping someone will hire you to shoot these types of projects. |
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Tom Braid, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 3:15 AM on 09.08.04 |
->> What a fantastic thread with so much effort and thought put into it.
Gives me much hope!! |
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Mike Mohaupt, Student/Intern
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Grand Forks | ND | USA | Posted: 2:56 AM on 11.17.05 |
->> This is over a year old but I felt needs to be resurfaced, thanks Thomas Boyd and GJ for great input. Ben has some pretty good quotes too.
Enjoy SS and remember this resource really is a gift, lets not take advantage of it.
~Mike |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 5:20 AM on 11.17.05 |
->> Gregory Heisler once said (this is summarized) that he always tried to look in the opposite direction and from a completely different angle than "the" picture and to follow that course.
Given the amazing strength of his images and career, I would say that is pretty sage advice. Plus his love of the craft of photography - I mean - the man can light. Heisler is thinking beyond the obvious.
When I think of the Olympics - two sets of images come to mind - both by David Burnett - the simple motion blur images of a fencer's and the delightful series of downhill skiers in Utah at the 120mm gate.
When you see Burnett's pictures shot within the scrum of DC photojournalism - they always stand apart from the rest of the pack. I remember he once said he always tried to get a different angle or view.
Different approaches for both images - but they work and convey the information needed and are energetic, informational and emotional. |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 5:28 AM on 11.17.05 |
->> I just found this -
Tonight (NOV 17th) Gregory Heisler is speaking in Los Angeles.
"Gregory Heisler
The Canon Explorers of Light Lecture Series
Hosted by APA/Los Angeles and The Julia Dean Photo Workshops
Thursday November 17th, at Pacific Design Center 8687 Melrose Ave., Los
Angeles, CA 90069 Doors open at 7pm"
For those folks lucky enough to live in the Southern California - here is your chance to hear this man talk about his thought process and see some incredible images.
You can go to the APA Los Angeles site for information. The url is: http://www.apa-la.org. |
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